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What now for the EU ?

So why is Macron being so stubborn about it? what is he trying to achieve?

Maybe he is not to keen on yet another "The French caved in" plastered across the front page of tabloïds ? Maybe he does not want to hear that he has been had over a barrel by a cornered BoJo ?
 

WightMivvi

Old-Salt
Maybe he is not to keen on yet another "The French caved in" plastered across the front page of tabloïds ? Maybe he does not want to hear that he has been had over a barrel by a cornered BoJo ?
Something smells fishy (pun intended).

Personally, I feel politicians are generally similar the world over and tend to be pragmatic. If backing down over a minor point would generate significant bad press, it would be more pragmatic to not have the argument in the first place.

It could be a negotiation tactic to get leverage on another subject but, if so, the intention would always be to give way in the end. However, there seems a surprisingly lot of personal capital invested by Macron if fishing was always something that would be conceded.

It’s either important, or he has set himself up to fail. Is Macron really that bad a politician?
 

ericferret

War Hero
French fishermen will not be unemployed after Brexit.

Endless work fishing economic migrants out of the channel.

Wait till they try again and get paid a second time.

Only downside is that the E.U are already talking about quotas for landings.

Some species will have to be thrown back, the landing quota for Nigerians is zero.
 
French fishermen will not be unemployed after Brexit.

Endless work fishing economic migrants out of the channel.

Wait till they try again and get paid a second time.

Only downside is that the E.U are already talking about quotas for landings.

Some species will have to be thrown back, the landing quota for Nigerians is zero.

Let them eat Kurd!
 
I'll indulge you one last time. I've had a play on your interactive mappy thing within my own Local Authority. We're predominantly rural with a coastline, bordering a major conurbation of about half a million. The EU has contributed to 20 projects in the area, mostly short-lived research - total value about £3.5m. Gosh.

More interestingly, during the last 10 years we had two major infrastructure projects; first a much needed 8 mile 4-lane by-pass to the south of our conurbation, and second a major flood relief programme on the coast. The EU (according to your site) contributed nothing to either. The first project has opened up about 5,000 acres of housing and employment land, benefiting the entire area. The second has brought back about 10,000 acres of agricultural land for commercial production - benefiting poorer rural communities and creating jobs, spin-off and tax revenue. The benefits from these two projects will continue to see the county grow and prosper for many years to come - without a penny of EU funding.

Yes, we have been a Sovereign state but in name only taking our laws and regulations from Brussels and subservient to their courts. In fact our own laws in welfare, employment, equality, diversity are far more advanced than the vast majority of the EU and all our citizens enjoy a much higher standard of living as a result.

Looking at the industries that have closed in the area as a direct result of the EU's absurd CAP and CFP - unknown. But we used to have a strong fishing community in our only port - all gone now, along with the shoreside jobs it maintained. You say fishing doesn't matter as long as the fish are caught - utter bollocks. Without local employment the local economy dies. And if you think the EU's super-massive trawler fleet are the future for sustainability, you're deluded. And incidentally, who's regulating the EU fishing fleets off west Africa? Back in my Local Authority, farmers have fields fallow or are growing crops we don't need as a result of CAP and we've lost two breeds of local pig. OJEU tendering procedures have actively favoured larger Continental companies to compete for local work - syphoning off jobs, apprenticeships, local investment and revenues.

On any fair assessment, EU regulation is inflexible, bureaucratic and inefficient; it stifles investment and innovation and kills local economies. But then isn't that the point? The amount received from the EU budget in no way recompenses for the local industries it has destroyed and is directed to short-lived, low benefit research projects rather than sustainable growth.

Post Brexit this country can import freely from the rest of the world, without ridiculous tariffs designed to support failing Continental industries. We can export into wider, more diverse markets free of EU regulation. Companies from across the globe can (and already are) locate to the UK without endless red tape or burdensome regulation and taxation - we can be free to trade and open for business.

What has the EU done for me - **** all. I thank you.
Easy to blame the EU for British incompetence. I witnessed a small group of companies waste £1.5m from the EU over five years through bad management. Grants used as slush funds fraudulently claimed. On laws...there has never been a moment when Britain could not make our own laws, the mechanism was always there and regularly used. In addition we were also required by our membership to observe EU laws, laws that we helped to generate and still need today. Fishing is an area of conflict only because of law breaking and greed. No one can police this particular industry efficiently with or without the EU. Following our departure look out for cowboy businesses and criminals to create havoc in a de-regulated free for all. Brexit cannot change human nature.
 
Indeed, that's why NATO HQ is in Belgium not France as originally intended and why the recently moved from HQ building (new HQ is over the road) has a warren of what are basically tarted up portacabins as a lot of the office accommodation.
Apparently a rather senior American politician Lyndon B Johnson (POTUS) insisted that his Secretary of State ask DeGaulle if that also included the over 60,000 US servicemen who died for French freedom and are buried in France. DeGaulle left the room in embarrassed silence.

ETA. @Murphy_Slaw got there first. In my time at NATO it's still a bit of a sore point when the US and French are in meetings together, the US really wasn't happy and still don't trust the French an inch.

They've good reason not to.
 
Easy to blame the EU for British incompetence. I witnessed a small group of companies waste £1.5m from the EU over five years through bad management. Grants used as slush funds fraudulently claimed. On laws...there has never been a moment when Britain could not make our own laws, the mechanism was always there and regularly used. In addition we were also required by our membership to observe EU laws, laws that we helped to generate and still need today. Fishing is an area of conflict only because of law breaking and greed. No one can police this particular industry efficiently with or without the EU. Following our departure look out for cowboy businesses and criminals to create havoc in a de-regulated free for all. Brexit cannot change human nature.
Subsidy fraud happens everywhere in the EU. Bridges that stand there without road access, roads that lead nowhere.
OLAF, the EU's anti-fraud organisation, is not very helpful, as the Dalli-Gate and Eurostat affairs prove. So this is not a typical British problem and the EU regulations do not necessarily make things any better.
 
Easy to blame the EU for British incompetence. I witnessed a small group of companies waste £1.5m from the EU over five years through bad management. Grants used as slush funds fraudulently claimed. On laws...there has never been a moment when Britain could not make our own laws, the mechanism was always there and regularly used. In addition we were also required by our membership to observe EU laws, laws that we helped to generate and still need today. Fishing is an area of conflict only because of law breaking and greed. No one can police this particular industry efficiently with or without the EU. Following our departure look out for cowboy businesses and criminals to create havoc in a de-regulated free for all. Brexit cannot change human nature.
The only incompetence demonstrated in my post is the EU's. They refuse to fund projects with long term structural benefits in the UK, instead diverting small grants to relatively useless short term research work. In terms of the frauds you allege, you'd think with all those over-paid bureaucrats and such detailed and technical regulation, they'd be able to do some simple due diligence. Or maybe you're fibbing again.

Fishing is only a conflict because the EU refuse to recognise our sovereign rights to our own Exclusive Economic Zone - an international standard set in 1982 by the UN. There's the greed you mention, coming straight out of Brussels. And yes, it can be policed - whether by patrolling, inspection, radar and IRS etc. Fishing with illegal equipment or where you shouldn't - here's your fine, pay up or have your boat and equipment impounded. What could be simpler. It's got to be better than the EU's CFP - quotas and wasted bycatch, what an idiotic system. The UK has never agreed with the CFP or the CAP, so why lie by saying we generated these absurdities?

Anyway, your time's up clown boy. We're leaving and the sooner the better.

Nice to see French food manufacturer Alpro investing a further £27m for a new factory in Kettering. I wonder why they'd do that if the UK's supposedly heading for a total meltdown post-Brexit. Is it because they can see the opportunities available and that you're barking up the wrong tree again?
 
de Gaulle said non, because he knew the British and knew what would ultimately happen. As often, he was right, and the UK left the organisation it tried very hard to join.

The Euro is an unqualified success. It did kill the hegemony of the DM, I can understand you are sad about that, but, like a German officer once told me during a course in Hammelburg, "Tel Aviv !" (He meant "c'est la vie", of course)

For the rest, I do not know if you ever have worked with the EU, but I can assure you there is plenty of money left. The EU funds for the Sahel totaled nearly 5 billions when I last worked on those topics. There is so much money that quite often the only indicator of success of a plan is to know whether it has all been spent or not.
There is no indicator for a chuckle. However again that’s rather tongue in cheek, none the less not inaccurate. The Euro cannot be said to be an unqualified success. To be a qualified success it would have to have a parity higher than the pound given the breadth of distribution. Neither the Germans let alone the Dutch have gained anything out of the deal and they are not happy. Moreover for the first set up it was Germany that took it on the chin as I have pointed out, not unadroit of the French, but again under duress. Germany could not have reunited without that deal.
in terms of the amount of money for the Sahel, that’s chicken feed, nor do we need to assume that it is directly money budgeted.
also non contraverability has another aspect, it means that there is no threat from that quarter in the financial markets. It also means those countries have their negotiating power curtailed and it means they can’t break away from the apron strings, ergo they can’t really afford defence forces, so of course they ask France for help. This strengthens France’s bargaining power. It would be like Britain underpinning the Indian, Canadian,Hong Kong economies by recommending they have a currency for their internal economies. How powerful would the pound become? But that’s not beneficial for tradein terms of exchange.
 
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