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What now for the EU ?

Oh Fantassin. The problem in Africa has far more to do with EUropean pre defined borders. That in itself was a method of control that France played as well as us and others. Those ex colonies would as a matter of course call on France.CFA is not really an obligation, in fact it ties Francophone Africa to the Euro and by definition to France as a Global player and I can assure you it does not prevent corruption at the highest level. Some African traders don’t even realise thatCFA is non controvertible , but in my experience Chinese will take in CFA taking the long term view. Nigerians on the other hand always carry principle currencies.
But the thing is that many of those French missions are UN backed, simply because France can’t control those areas single handly. They also KNOW the EU has a policy of paying up.

History is history. France has left its colonies about 60 years ago now. Those nations that are "tied" and have French bases are doing it because it suits them; there are actually more nations wanting to have French bases in Africa than France has money to accept the invitations....

Corruption is of course there but the non convertibility means that the printed money stays in the countries, where it is needed. The absence of printed money or the very poor state of the banknotes making them scarce has often been an issue in those areas.

All French missions are as backed as can be, by the UN, the AU, ECOWAS etc, etc. so as to have a legal framework and to defect accusations of imperialism.

There is no ambition to "control" those areas. The ambition is to support the various local Gvts to do so
 
Regarding fishing rights, i think that many people both understand the point of view of the UK which wants to keep its waters for its internal consumption and the situation of the fishermen. France's EEZ is being pilfered by the Chinese (and others...) all over the globe so there is a degree of understanding by those in the know...


Macron's position on BREXIT is everything but a surprise. If it wasn't for him and Junkers having appointed Barnier as chief negotiator, the UK and BoJo would have rolled all over Brussels. If the UK gets its cake and eats it, it will be the end of the EU and Macron, a dedicated europhile, knows it. So he will do all he can to make sure the UK doesn't get unfair advantage from leaving the EU.

Do you believe that the UK being in control of it's fishing, is an unfair advantage?
 
Do you believe that the UK being in control of it's fishing, is an unfair advantage?

In principle, no.

Then, the bigger scheme of things needs to be taken into consideration as it is a negotiation, with each side having to gain something or else it will be a festering wound until it is resolved peacefully. So it's better to do it right now.
 
So wrong Higgsy. You take the side of the EU like they could do no wrong. reverse the situation and see if your opinion changes.

The EU wanted to keep us as a vassal state within their own jurisdiction and regulations. No sovereign state could accept such terms. The level playing field was never level from the UK perspective, it would always have put us at a disadvantage. Their demands to have access to UK fishing were equally unrealistic - why would any sovereign nation in the world accept such a crass suggestion?

Only until they respect that we are no longer a part of their Union and a separate, sovereign state can they hope to negotiate a fair and reasonable trade agreement. They're in la-la-land, waving around a clearly unchambered revolver. Boris just has to sit back and wait for them to get some realism and respect - they'll come round in the end. In the meantime there's really no need for everyone to get quite so frothy about it.

Incidentally, have you seen that the German-owned ProGroup and Lincoln based Krystals are opening a new £20m packaging plant in Ellesmere Port? ProGroup also opened an £80m corrugated board plant on the site last year, which was their largest overseas investment ever. Sounds like it's worked well for them - good lads!
I only want the truth and it appears though we have done very well with the EU and leaving will be a disaster. We have always been a Sovereign state and have actually helped generate the EU regulations that we need as an international trader. Fishing is not worth worrying about in the big scheme of things. The seas must be sustainable and regulated. Who catches the fish is irrelevant in an open market.

As for the projects mentioned, I'm not sure of the specifics...grants etc. But it will take a lot more to fill the huge hole left by brexit. The EU were investing about 5bn every year. Have a play on this. myeu.uk – see what the EU has done for you
 
I just want to underline how convenient it is to keep on saying "you have made us the way we are now and we won't change anymore".

Macron's position on BREXIT is everything but a surprise. If it wasn't for him and Junkers having appointed Barnier as chief negotiator, the UK and BoJo would have rolled all over Brussels. If the UK gets its cake and eats it, it will be the end of the EU and Macron, a dedicated europhile, knows it. So he will do all he can to make sure the UK doesn't get unfair advantage from leaving the EU.

Regarding Erdogan, it is both a matter of political survival and strong beliefs in secularism that drive Macron. If he is seen as hesitating, he will be torn to strip by the extreme right and the conservatives; and deep down, he does not want islam to carve itself as a separate entity within the republic. So yes, he is playing bulwark against islamic fundamentalists and Erdogan at the same time and he is not going to be quiet about it.
Yiou seem a bit out of your depth.
It is the will of the majority of the electorate and the political parties and must therefore be respected.
It is about as convenient as saying we cannot carry out reforms because our farmers would dump 500 tonnes of cow shit in front of the Palais de l'Élysée.
Macron's position on BREXIT is certainly no surprise, he continues the policy of pinpricks against rivals in Europe that France has been pursuing for centuries. Be it de Gaulle who wanted to prevent the UK's entry into the EU at all costs because he could never forgive the British and Americans for liberating his country.
Be it Mitterrand who forces Germany into the Euro as the price for reunification.

Not mentioning to say that it is a bad thing if BoJo overruns the EU. We better keep quiet over the small fact that Macron showed this behaviour before Johnson even had the power to overrun anything.
It is in the interest of Germany and the economically strong countries of Northern and Central Europe to have a close partnership with the UK. It is certainly not in their interest to participate and finance the nickels and dimes of France and the rest of Club Med.
So now Macron is doing what all failed politicians do, he is building up an enemy on the outside to achieve internal unity and the price is apparently being paid by others.
Why the rest of Europe should suffer from Gallic arrogance, somebody has to explain to me.
 
Yiou seem a bit out of your depth.
It is the will of the majority of the electorate and the political parties and must therefore be respected.
It is about as convenient as saying we cannot carry out reforms because our farmers would dump 500 tonnes of cow shit in front of the Palais de l'Élysée.
Macron's position on BREXIT is certainly no surprise, he continues the policy of pinpricks against rivals in Europe that France has been pursuing for centuries. Be it de Gaulle who wanted to prevent the UK's entry into the EU at all costs because he could never forgive the British and Americans for liberating his country.
Be it Mitterrand who forces Germany into the Euro as the price for reunification.

Not mentioning to say that it is a bad thing if BoJo overruns the EU. We better keep quiet over the small fact that Macron showed this behaviour before Johnson even had the power to overrun anything.
It is in the interest of Germany and the economically strong countries of Northern and Central Europe to have a close partnership with the UK. It is certainly not in their interest to participate and finance the nickels and dimes of France and the rest of Club Med.
So now Macron is doing what all failed politicians do, he is building up an enemy on the outside to achieve internal unity and the price is apparently being paid by others.
Why the rest of Europe should suffer from Gallic arrogance, somebody has to explain to me.

I think you have got almost 10/10 on the cliché bingo.

You still miss "delusion of grandeur", "Gallic flair" and "finance its colonial adventurism by Germany" and then you can submit your text to the Daily Mail.

Well done !
 
I think you have got almost 10/10 on the cliché bingo.

You still miss "delusion of grandeur", "Gallic flair" and "finance its colonial adventurism by Germany" and then you can submit your text to the Daily Mail.

Well done !
:( . . . !!

JUST, when I thought you two getting along famously, and as an example to the rest of us . . .

;) .
 
D

Deleted 174133

Guest
I think you have got almost 10/10 on the cliché bingo.

You still miss "delusion of grandeur", "Gallic flair" and "finance its colonial adventurism by Germany" and then you can submit your text to the Daily Mail.

Well done !
It is hard to hear the truth, I know. Why exactly did de Gaulle say "Non!" twice and why do we have the Euro?
I wouldn't even mention things like "delusion of grandeur" or "Gallic flair" they aren't relevant and I think you are perfectly aware where your country stands and what it is.
We surely don't finance your colonial adventurism. There isn't enough money left, because we are busy for decades to finance your farmers with the CAP. Or as Thatcher put it: "I want my money back!".
 
Fishing is not worth worrying about in the big scheme of things. The seas must be sustainable and regulated. Who catches the fish is irrelevant in an open market.
You live inland, don't you!?
 
It is hard to hear the truth, I know. Why exactly did de Gaulle say "Non!" twice and why do we have the Euro?
I wouldn't even mention things like "delusion of grandeur" or "Gallic flair" they aren't relevant and I think you are perfectly aware where your country stands and what it is.
We surely don't finance your colonial adventurism. There isn't enough money left, because we are busy for decades to finance your farmers with the CAP. Or as Thatcher put it: "I want my money back!".

de Gaulle said non, because he knew the British and knew what would ultimately happen. As often, he was right, and the UK left the organisation it tried very hard to join.

The Euro is an unqualified success. It did kill the hegemony of the DM, I can understand you are sad about that, but, like a German officer once told me during a course in Hammelburg, "Tel Aviv !" (He meant "c'est la vie", of course)

For the rest, I do not know if you ever have worked with the EU, but I can assure you there is plenty of money left. The EU funds for the Sahel totaled nearly 5 billions when I last worked on those topics. There is so much money that quite often the only indicator of success of a plan is to know whether it has all been spent or not.
 

WightMivvi

Old-Salt
I only want the truth and it appears though we have done very well with the EU and leaving will be a disaster. We have always been a Sovereign state and have actually helped generate the EU regulations that we need as an international trader. Fishing is not worth worrying about in the big scheme of things. The seas must be sustainable and regulated. Who catches the fish is irrelevant in an open market.

As for the projects mentioned, I'm not sure of the specifics...grants etc. But it will take a lot more to fill the huge hole left by brexit. The EU were investing about 5bn every year. Have a play on this. myeu.uk – see what the EU has done for you
We have done well, but was that due to EU membership or was it down to reforms and policies that were made whilst we just happened to be in the EU. For example, deregulation of the finance markets (the big bang) had a huge positive affect on the UK economy. It happened whilst we were in the EU but wasn’t a result of being in the EU. Another example is “Black Wednesday” when we were forced out of proto-Euro. That was a case of where diverging from most of the rest of EU gave us another huge boost.

Success whilst in the EU does not automatically mean success is due to the EU.

As for sovereignty, well, it’s an interesting subject. Remainers said we always were sovereign. However, membership of the EU resulted in us being unwilling to exercise sovereignty and we essentially out-sourced sovereignty to a third-party.

And like all outsourcing deals, we suck at them, the third-party screws us over, they are imperfect and full of holes, and the third-party only behaves when they realise they might lose the contract. Up until 2015, our sovereignty out-sourcer thought their contract was eternal.

The EU are the HP / ATLAS of sovereignty.
 
Says the man from the fast disappearing country which needs to import 1,000,000 migrants to survive...
You are entirely correct, parts of the country sometimes look like a French Banlieu. But I forgot, the Beurs and Beurettes are real french ciitzens, no problems with extremists or beheadings or similar nonsense.
But you seem a bit miffed. How can I console you? Today I did Poitrine de poulet à l’orange et Dijon, spuds a la provence with garlic and Ratatouille.
Never mind that the chicken was from a local organic farmer, the spuds and garlic out of my garden. But, because I am lazy I used this Bonduelle Ratatouille and therefore supported french farmers and french companies.
 
You are entirely correct, parts of the country sometimes look like a French Banlieu. But I forgot, the Beurs and Beurettes are real french ciitzens, no problems with extremists or beheadings or similar nonsense.
But you seem a bit miffed. How can I console you? Today I did Poitrine de poulet à l’orange et Dijon, spuds a la provence with garlic and Ratatouille.
Never mind that the chicken was from a local organic farmer, the spuds and garlic out of my garden. But, because I am lazy I used this Bonduelle Ratatouille and therefore supported french farmers and french companies.

Just like in Germany then

 
I only want the truth and it appears though we have done very well with the EU and leaving will be a disaster. We have always been a Sovereign state and have actually helped generate the EU regulations that we need as an international trader. Fishing is not worth worrying about in the big scheme of things. The seas must be sustainable and regulated. Who catches the fish is irrelevant in an open market.

As for the projects mentioned, I'm not sure of the specifics...grants etc. But it will take a lot more to fill the huge hole left by brexit. The EU were investing about 5bn every year. Have a play on this. myeu.uk – see what the EU has done for you

Fishing is certainly not worth worrying about in the grand scheme of things.

The French aren't making much fuss about fishing at all.
 
de Gaulle said non, because he knew the British and knew what would ultimately happen. As often, he was right, and the UK left the organisation it tried very hard to join.

The Euro is an unqualified success. It did kill the hegemony of the DM, I can understand you are sad about that, but, like a German officer once told me during a course in Hammelburg, "Tel Aviv !" (He meant "c'est la vie", of course)

For the rest, I do not know if you ever have worked with the EU, but I can assure you there is plenty of money left. The EU funds for the Sahel totaled nearly 5 billions when I last worked on those topics. There is so much money that quite often the only indicator of success of a plan is to know whether it has all been spent or not.
He knew absolutely nothing it was just his injured pride.
What every taxpayer wants to hear is that there is so much money that the only indicator of success is the amount of it squandered away.

Thank you, the EU, the Euro, the everlasting friendship of the French are things one has to appreciate and preserve.
 

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