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What now for the EU ?

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The UK will not accept the terms and conditions. Currently our manufacturing and trade is dependent on membership benefits. Brexit will make everything more expensive... Why should BMW have wing mirrors manufactured in UK at twice the price of wing mirrors from Spain?
You mean the other stuff you posted about how wonderful the EU is and how it’s the most open to trade in the world is in fact bollox. Oh well. I’m glad we’re out.
 
I know it’s the Express, but this little spat between Italy and France over Monte Bianco / Mont Blanc will be amusing to keep an eye on.

“Hands off Mont Blanc! France told 'can't do whatever you want' amid Italy border row”
 
You made no progress.

  • Brexit affects all manufactures and traders in a negative way.
  • You don't win, buy or sell anything by making terms and conditions deliberately unacceptable.

If you wish to talk about negotiation strategy why not start an appropriate thread? My background is Procurement.
You're talking out of your hoop Higgsy. As an example, the EU currently forces us to add 80% import tariff on motorcycle parts from China. The purpose of this is to protect inefficient and failing EU manufacturers such as Piaggio and Vespa.

At the end of the transition period we can import Chinese battery mopeds (for which we have a huge home market) and retail them at £200 instead of £1,000 - increased sales all round, thank you very much. There are thousands of similar examples - you just have to open your eyes and look for them.

My Local Authority sends all its glass recycling by road round to Cardiff, where it's containerised and shipped to one of the largest EU glass recycling facilities in Portugal. Without OJEU tendering these contracts can be let locally providing employment, apprenticeships and investment here - which incidentally all UK Local Authorities are required to do by law. OJEU, as any procurement professional will know, serves only to export industry, jobs and investment to mainland Europe at the cost of our own local economies.
 

WightMivvi

Old-Salt
You made no progress.

  • Brexit affects all manufactures and traders in a negative way.
  • You don't win, buy or sell anything by making terms and conditions deliberately unacceptable.

If you wish to talk about negotiation strategy why not start an appropriate thread? My background is Procurement.
Ah, my apologies. I obviously made a newbie mistake: when you started talking about T&Cs (which are part of the negotiations) I made the mistake of assuming you were happy to talk about T&Cs (which are part of the negotiation). Following your example was obviously wrong. Hmm. I suspect that’s true in many things...

BTW, my background was technical / contractural problem solving: understanding both sides viewpoints, needs, wants and pressures, researching and analysing possible solutions, and then finding a way to come to a mutually acceptable result. As such, I learnt to be rather dispassionate, realistic and honest about both sides. What I am seeing with the current EU / UK spat is, at its heart, not much different from what I saw between the MOD, its branches and its contractors.

It’ll sort itself out in the end and working ourselves up and having hissy fits, whilst possibly cathartic, won’t make a blind bit of difference.
 
As an example, the EU currently forces us to add 80% import tariff on motorcycle parts from China
Part of that is ADD. The reason Vespa and Piagio can’t compete, so it is in effect state subsidy which is illegal. Now when SAIC shifted Rover to China no one batted an eyelid, least of all BMW who ensured that the Rover badge couldn’t be used. The proper way is for the Italians to bear the job losses but impose higher duty rates, not ADD . Or you accept that a strategic requirement to keep people employed which in effect allows subsidies.
 

Actingunpaid

Old-Salt
You made no progress.

  • Brexit affects all manufactures and traders in a negative way.
  • You don't win, buy or sell anything by making terms and conditions deliberately unacceptable.

If you wish to talk about negotiation strategy why not start an appropriate thread? My background is Procurement.
You are a silly billy.Royal Mint are having to make lots of extra 50p Brexit coins,so that's a massive positive.
 

View attachment 514199

And:



So all the countries in the EU collectively have a GDP that's about 75% of the US's, while the strongest economy in the EU (Germany, has an economy a fifth of the size of the US.

The rest of your post is equal bollox.

You and reality should file for a divorce.

Wordsmith

Rankings by Nominal GDP​

Here are the 2019 rankings by nominal GDP, shown in current U.S. dollars. These don't take into account PPP, and by this measure, the U.S. is the world's biggest economy:

  1. U.S.: $21.4 trillion
  2. EU: $15.6 trillion
  3. China: $14.3 trillion
  4. Japan: $5.1 trillion
  5. Germany: $3.8 trillion
  6. India: $2.9 trillion
  7. U.K: $2.8 trillion
  8. France: $2.7 trillion
  9. Italy: $2.0 trillion
  10. Brazil: $1.84 trillion

Instead of PPP, these calculations use the official exchange rate. Unlike PPP, the official exchange rate doesn't account for changes in the rate over time.

Despite the eurozone debt crisis, the EU is lurching toward greater fiscal integration as well as a monetary one. The EU is acting more and more like a unified economy all the time. Furthermore, the EU's currency, the euro, has successfully competed with the dollar as a global currency.

This does make the whole EU trading bloc a failure by any definition and your claim of huge trade losses make it all the more remarkable. To argue for brexit based upon economy is flawed. Do some adding up.
 
You're talking out of your hoop Higgsy. As an example, the EU currently forces us to add 80% import tariff on motorcycle parts from China. The purpose of this is to protect inefficient and failing EU manufacturers such as Piaggio and Vespa.

At the end of the transition period we can import Chinese battery mopeds (for which we have a huge home market) and retail them at £200 instead of £1,000 - increased sales all round, thank you very much. There are thousands of similar examples - you just have to open your eyes and look for them.

My Local Authority sends all its glass recycling by road round to Cardiff, where it's containerised and shipped to one of the largest EU glass recycling facilities in Portugal. Without OJEU tendering these contracts can be let locally providing employment, apprenticeships and investment here - which incidentally all UK Local Authorities are required to do by law. OJEU, as any procurement professional will know, serves only to export industry, jobs and investment to mainland Europe at the cost of our own local economies.
Simply read what I said about Britain...

  • Brexit affects all manufactures and traders in a negative way.
  • You don't win, buy or sell anything by making terms and conditions deliberately unacceptable.
Cheap Chinese products actually make it worse for British industry.

There are probably good reasons why some glass recycling goes to Portugal...what has changed?

 

Rankings by Nominal GDP​

Here are the 2019 rankings by nominal GDP, shown in current U.S. dollars. These don't take into account PPP, and by this measure, the U.S. is the world's biggest economy:

  1. U.S.: $21.4 trillion
  2. EU: $15.6 trillion
  3. China: $14.3 trillion
  4. Japan: $5.1 trillion
  5. Germany: $3.8 trillion
  6. India: $2.9 trillion
  7. U.K: $2.8 trillion
  8. France: $2.7 trillion
  9. Italy: $2.0 trillion
  10. Brazil: $1.84 trillion
So a further $4.3T between the remaining 23 member states, who are those power houses, Romania?
 
Simply read what I said about Britain...

  • Brexit affects all manufactures and traders in a negative way.
  • You don't win, buy or sell anything by making terms and conditions deliberately unacceptable.
Cheap Chinese products actually make it worse for British industry.

There are probably good reasons why some glass recycling goes to Portugal...what has changed?

Again - complete nonsense. In my Chinese moped example; you import 1,000 units, instant 80% mark-up goes directly to Brussels and lost to the UK economy. Without the tariff you sell 10x more - the entire retail mark up is re-circulated in the UK. Good for consumers, retailers, repairers, parts suppliers, more tax generated etc. That's how you grow an economy.

Re the glass recycling: OJEU tendering procedure favours bids from the larger Portuguese facility (incidentally, part funded by the EU but not recognised as State aid). OJEU bid evaluation methodology will always favour the larger balance sheet of the continental company to the detriment of smaller UK recyclers - contract goes to Portugal with a higher carbon footprint. What has changed - without OJEU we can let contracts in the UK, retain jobs, grow local economies, free of burdensome bureaucracy.

The EU acts as a brake on innovation and enterprise. Free up the economy, trade more, grow quicker. It's that simple. I doubt any of this real world analysis will alter your socialist brain patterns. Some things just can't be changed.
 
I think that they are more likely to think that you are from outer space with that accent!

But not native British, so winner all round.

Just have to find somewhere they haven't cleaned out all the nickable RIBs yet...
 

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