What now for the EU ?

From the link;

Both sides. A very nasty battle where politicians in the UK, politicians in France are put in the situation where things get very difficult.
Not Brussels then?

edit;
The eu have a trade deal with Canada, are they allowed to fish inside the Canadian Exclusive Economic Zone?

Turbot War | Britishseafishing.co.uk

The Canadians claims were further strengthened when an independent inspection of the Estai reported back: 70-80 per cent of fish the Spanish vessel had caught were undersized or protected, and a false bulkhead revealed secret storage tanks that contained twenty-five tons of the heavily protected American plaice – a species which had been under moratorium since 1992 due to heavily reduced stocks. Furthermore, the captain had two differing sets of logbooks recording his catch – a favourite trick of corrupt skippers who catch way over their quota then submit one logbook containing correct figures to the authorities while keeping the true figures in the other logbook for their own use. The reasons why the Estai cut its nets and tried to flee the Canadian forces were now apparent.


European countries were split over who they supported in the dispute. Britain and Ireland took Canada’s side, while, despite the obvious wrong doing of the Estai, the European Union supported Spain, with Icelandbeing particularly vocal in their support for the Spanish.
By this point the dispute had descended into name-calling, with the Spanish claiming the Canadians had behaved like “pirates”, while Canada accused Spain of being “conservation criminals” and “cheats.” Germany lent naval support to the Spanish, while British Prime Minister John Major risked turning the EU community against Britain by coming out with strong public support for the Canadians. When the issue of bringing trade sanctions against Canada was brought up Major made it clear that Britain would be opposed to any attempt to impose such sanctions against Canada, and since these proposals required unanimous support from all EU countries Major’s opposition stopped the sanctions from going ahead. Many British and Irish trawlers began flying the Canadian flag to show which side they supported in the dispute.
 
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RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
Meanwhile.....
WAR!

Talking of defence, The Guardian/Observer are reporting that Britain's security contribution is being held as a bargaining chip by HMG. I suppose it's logical to do so, but not sure how this will actually work out considering the cross-over with NATO. See link and selected quote below (my bold):

Boris Johnson ‘is turning security into Brexit trade talks bargaining chip’

Yan St-Pierre, a counter-terrorism expert, said the UK was “playing politics with Europe’s security”. With the US, it was “light years ahead” of the EU in electronic security capability – the online monitoring of terrorist activity, electronic surveillance, drone and satellite technology, he said.

St-Pierre, head of the Berlin firm Modern Security Consulting, which advises EU governments, said: “The UK knows, especially when it comes to its electronic security capability, that it has a major bargaining chip.”

The UK’s approach was effectively holding Europe hostage over its needs to protect itself. “The Germans, the French, a lot of other European countries, don’t have the capabilities that the UK has. It’s a very real bargaining chip compounded by the fact that US foreign policy is unreliable in the era of Trump,” said St-Pierre. “The EU countries are extremely dependent both on the UK and the US for electronic security and the sharing of electronic information.”
 

marty870

War Hero
Talking of defence, The Guardian/Observer are reporting that Britain's security contribution is being held as a bargaining chip by HMG. I suppose it's logical to do so, but not sure how this will actually work out considering the cross-over with NATO. See link and selected quote below (my bold):

Boris Johnson ‘is turning security into Brexit trade talks bargaining chip’

Yan St-Pierre, a counter-terrorism expert, said the UK was “playing politics with Europe’s security”. With the US, it was “light years ahead” of the EU in electronic security capability – the online monitoring of terrorist activity, electronic surveillance, drone and satellite technology, he said.

St-Pierre, head of the Berlin firm Modern Security Consulting, which advises EU governments, said: “The UK knows, especially when it comes to its electronic security capability, that it has a major bargaining chip.”

The UK’s approach was effectively holding Europe hostage over its needs to protect itself. “The Germans, the French, a lot of other European countries, don’t have the capabilities that the UK has. It’s a very real bargaining chip compounded by the fact that US foreign policy is unreliable in the era of Trump,” said St-Pierre. “The EU countries are extremely dependent both on the UK and the US for electronic security and the sharing of electronic information.”
That can't be true, the remainers claimed uk's security would be under threat if we left the EU.
 

gung_hobo

Old-Salt
Allegedly, a while ago, a number of countries came together (inclusions from outside the 5i's). The agreement was to pool certain information types freely amongst the group. Allegedly the French were caught trying to sell information obtained from US/UK to someone else. Apparently it was at this point that the US terminated some sharing agreements with France, and allegedly a certain amount of distrust was engendered. Sorry, I know no more than this.

If the above is correct then the EU definitely has a requirement to have the UK onside for its protection. The key (I believe) is that UK has to ensure it does not give others (EU) information gained from e.g. US sources that is in conflict with the dissemination/sharing policy of US. As the EU is a vicarious group of disparate countries of variable trustworthiness, personally I am amazed that we are able to share much at all other than what UK collects itself. What is collected is apparently quite a lot and I would hope only a percentage of that is shared!

With regard to the wider UK/EU negotiations, there are many areas where there will be disagreement. It is refreshing to at last find that UK is not giving away areas of advantage before the negotiations commence. You want fish from UK waters? What about your pathetic intelligence network?

Personally I think the negotiations are going pretty much to form and they haven't even started yet. Dummies are being spat out of the cot, red lines are being drawn everywhere, everything will of course (according to the EU) be the UK's fault. Appeasers should look back at history and see where appeasement failed just a little bit. As a sovereign nation UK is not beholden to the EU unless it agrees to be bound by powers that mean that it is not sovereign. My personal forecast is that negotiations will apparently go badly right up until the point that the whip is cracked. Amazingly an agreement will be achieved on about 30th Jan 2021. It will then be lauded by all parties.

It is easy to see the problems or issues for one's own side especially if one favours the other side. The reality is (I hope) that of course the EU has a lot of problems (it is a disparate group trying to work under one umbrella after all), so as elements of their finance and industry work out exactly how bad for them a WTO deal would be, that huge pressure is exerted upon the individual countries and the institution as a whole. EU banks have already asked the EU not to cut off its nose to spite its face. They need access to what London does as much as they would like to take what London does if they could. German industry has a few views regarding the potential loss (reduction) of the UK market. Few countries seem to want a reduction in EU "largesse". Somebody will have to pay in.

Is UK going to get everything it wants? Of course not. But this time, we seem not to be throwing away every bargaining chip that we have before we start. We'll see how it all pans out but whilst of course the opposition will heap opprobrium, misinformation and maskirovka upon Boris/the UK public, finally we appear to have a Prime Minister (1st Lord of The Treasury) who is prepared to take them on at their own game. I believe that the EU wears down negotiations by on the one hand holding out the prospect of access and sales from a large market with the individual objections of might economic giants of the like of Malta et al. It is like an application for a mortgage, "we are 95% of the way there, but there is this little problem that we have with our agreement so far....". They hope that the "applicant" is so fed up with the negotiations that they will agree to anything just to conclude them. "One country e.g. Canada", they want a reasonable deal, but we can roll out an objection by (insert irrelevant country of choice), that can kibosh the deal. All they need is a small and insignificant change that can later be snowballed into a massive problem. Under no circumstances should UK agree to be bound by any EU organisation or quasi organisation. We are not negotiating as supplicants.

Ah well. It could be/get worse.
GH
 
Allegedly, a while ago, a number of countries came together (inclusions from outside the 5i's). The agreement was to pool certain information types freely amongst the group. Allegedly the French were caught trying to sell information obtained from US/UK to someone else. Apparently it was at this point that the US terminated some sharing agreements with France, and allegedly a certain amount of distrust was engendered. Sorry, I know no more than this.

If the above is correct then the EU definitely has a requirement to have the UK onside for its protection. The key (I believe) is that UK has to ensure it does not give others (EU) information gained from e.g. US sources that is in conflict with the dissemination/sharing policy of US. As the EU is a vicarious group of disparate countries of variable trustworthiness, personally I am amazed that we are able to share much at all other than what UK collects itself. What is collected is apparently quite a lot and I would hope only a percentage of that is shared!

With regard to the wider UK/EU negotiations, there are many areas where there will be disagreement. It is refreshing to at last find that UK is not giving away areas of advantage before the negotiations commence. You want fish from UK waters? What about your pathetic intelligence network?

Personally I think the negotiations are going pretty much to form and they haven't even started yet. Dummies are being spat out of the cot, red lines are being drawn everywhere, everything will of course (according to the EU) be the UK's fault. Appeasers should look back at history and see where appeasement failed just a little bit. As a sovereign nation UK is not beholden to the EU unless it agrees to be bound by powers that mean that it is not sovereign. My personal forecast is that negotiations will apparently go badly right up until the point that the whip is cracked. Amazingly an agreement will be achieved on about 30th Jan 2021. It will then be lauded by all parties.

It is easy to see the problems or issues for one's own side especially if one favours the other side. The reality is (I hope) that of course the EU has a lot of problems (it is a disparate group trying to work under one umbrella after all), so as elements of their finance and industry work out exactly how bad for them a WTO deal would be, that huge pressure is exerted upon the individual countries and the institution as a whole. EU banks have already asked the EU not to cut off its nose to spite its face. They need access to what London does as much as they would like to take what London does if they could. German industry has a few views regarding the potential loss (reduction) of the UK market. Few countries seem to want a reduction in EU "largesse". Somebody will have to pay in.

Is UK going to get everything it wants? Of course not. But this time, we seem not to be throwing away every bargaining chip that we have before we start. We'll see how it all pans out but whilst of course the opposition will heap opprobrium, misinformation and maskirovka upon Boris/the UK public, finally we appear to have a Prime Minister (1st Lord of The Treasury) who is prepared to take them on at their own game. I believe that the EU wears down negotiations by on the one hand holding out the prospect of access and sales from a large market with the individual objections of might economic giants of the like of Malta et al. It is like an application for a mortgage, "we are 95% of the way there, but there is this little problem that we have with our agreement so far....". They hope that the "applicant" is so fed up with the negotiations that they will agree to anything just to conclude them. "One country e.g. Canada", they want a reasonable deal, but we can roll out an objection by (insert irrelevant country of choice), that can kibosh the deal. All they need is a small and insignificant change that can later be snowballed into a massive problem. Under no circumstances should UK agree to be bound by any EU organisation or quasi organisation. We are not negotiating as supplicants.

Ah well. It could be/get worse.
GH
Americans have long had an issue with French data mining and outright stealing if US technology, especially military... see Cameron getting f’d off at high port by the Americans when he had the bright idea to share a carrier with the French.

two particular systems the US are still sulking about is a sonar system that the Chinese PLAN deployed that rather bore more than a passing similarity to a US one, And, technology from Hellfire and Longbow Radar off Apache. Both have fingers that point at France being the point of technology exit. The French had a very close military technology relationship with China at one point.
 
The danger here is that the EU ties up the UK on rabbithole bollox like fishing rights, while the UK fails to negotiate trade deals with non EU countries.

Tell the EU to go to the back of the queue.
 
Talking of defence, The Guardian/Observer are reporting that Britain's security contribution is being held as a bargaining chip by HMG. I suppose it's logical to do so, but not sure how this will actually work out considering the cross-over with NATO. See link and selected quote below (my bold):

Boris Johnson ‘is turning security into Brexit trade talks bargaining chip’

Yan St-Pierre, a counter-terrorism expert, said the UK was “playing politics with Europe’s security”. With the US, it was “light years ahead” of the EU in electronic security capability – the online monitoring of terrorist activity, electronic surveillance, drone and satellite technology, he said.

St-Pierre, head of the Berlin firm Modern Security Consulting, which advises EU governments, said: “The UK knows, especially when it comes to its electronic security capability, that it has a major bargaining chip.”

The UK’s approach was effectively holding Europe hostage over its needs to protect itself. “The Germans, the French, a lot of other European countries, don’t have the capabilities that the UK has. It’s a very real bargaining chip compounded by the fact that US foreign policy is unreliable in the era of Trump,” said St-Pierre. “The EU countries are extremely dependent both on the UK and the US for electronic security and the sharing of electronic information.”
**** them, they're the ones who decided to be cu nts about the whole thing.
 
I would say that at present they (the EU) are very much struggling to justify their existence, Brexit has laid bare the false claims, bluff and complete propaganda and disinformation surrounding them.
Maybe even fighting for their existence perhaps.
A lot of ordinary people living on the continent have had their eyes opened about things previously taken as fact, in particular the funding of the Brussels magic money tree.
People I speak to want it to go back to the Marché Commun and nothing more, things apparently worked better then for them.

And Euroscepticism has doubled elsewhere too in the last 20 years according to this source.



Although in true Grauniad style they get in a quote from the European Parliament stating that continued support for EU membership goes with a strong belief (68%) that EU countries overall have benefited from being part of the EU - equalling the highest level recorded since 1983.


Somehow ignoring the fact that the EU only came into being 10 years later in 1993.
A bit like their claim to have kept the peace in Europe since 1945.
Hilarious.
 
Talking of defence, The Guardian/Observer are reporting that Britain's security contribution is being held as a bargaining chip by HMG. I suppose it's logical to do so, but not sure how this will actually work out considering the cross-over with NATO. See link and selected quote below (my bold):

Boris Johnson ‘is turning security into Brexit trade talks bargaining chip’

Yan St-Pierre, a counter-terrorism expert, said the UK was “playing politics with Europe’s security”. With the US, it was “light years ahead” of the EU in electronic security capability – the online monitoring of terrorist activity, electronic surveillance, drone and satellite technology, he said.

St-Pierre, head of the Berlin firm Modern Security Consulting, which advises EU governments, said: “The UK knows, especially when it comes to its electronic security capability, that it has a major bargaining chip.”

The UK’s approach was effectively holding Europe hostage over its needs to protect itself. “The Germans, the French, a lot of other European countries, don’t have the capabilities that the UK has. It’s a very real bargaining chip compounded by the fact that US foreign policy is unreliable in the era of Trump,” said St-Pierre. “The EU countries are extremely dependent both on the UK and the US for electronic security and the sharing of electronic information.”
Might have helped if they'd thought of that before treating the UK like second class players.
 
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From the link;



Not Brussels then?

edit;
The eu have a trade deal with Canada, are they allowed to fish inside the Canadian Exclusive Economic Zone?

Turbot War | Britishseafishing.co.uk
European countries were split over who they supported in the dispute. Britain and Ireland took Canada’s side, while, despite the obvious wrong doing of the Estai, the European Union supported Spain, with Icelandbeing particularly vocal in their support for the Spanish. By this point the dispute had descended into name-calling, with the Spanish claiming the Canadians had behaved like “pirates”, while Canada accused Spain of being “conservation criminals” and “cheats.” Germany lent naval support to the Spanish, while British Prime Minister John Major risked turning the EU community against Britain by coming out with strong public support for the Canadians.

They should have towed the ship out and sunk it.....
 
Not happy days in EUtopia.

Coronavirus is having a much harder impact on Italy's economy than expected.
A Full scale recession is coming up fast in the rear view mirror.
 
Not happy days in EUtopia.
I don't know about happy days in EUtopia, but there are certainly lunatic days in EUtopia.

We are acting today to make the EU the world’s first climate neutral continent by 2050," Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in a statement, as the Commission presented its proposal for a Climate Law — meant to make the EU's commitment to slash greenhouse gases to net zero by 2050 legally binding.

Apparently the President of the EU Commission thinks that the EU is a continent.

Has she told the other Countries that make up Continental Europe, but not members of the EU, that they have been swallowed up by the EU ?
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Not happy days in EUtopia.

Coronavirus is having a much harder impact on Italy's economy than expected.
A Full scale recession is coming up fast in the rear view mirror.
It almost makes one wish that we have terrible COVID 19 related financial problems and plunder every last penny from the ******* as we leave. However I suspect the truth is they’ll want us to pay for Italy before the end of the year.
 
I don't know about happy days in EUtopia, but there are certainly lunatic days in EUtopia.




Apparently the President of the EU Commission thinks that the EU is a continent.

Has she told the other Countries that make up Continental Europe, but not members of the EU, that they have been swallowed up by the EU ?

That the EU are treating a very seriously deranged and mentally ill teenager as the new Messiah, tells me everything I know about BREXIT was 100% the right idea.


25526236-8073933-image-m-56_1583326283423.jpg
 
This photo indicates the EUs over-riding problem, its leadership and the people are a million miles apart. They don't even speak the same language. Apart from English, Britains lasting legacy for the EU.
 

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