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What now for the EU ?

Don't need to catch them all, just at a steady enough rate to be a real deterrent. And preferably deep in what will be UK waters, so they can't plead minor navigational error.

After a number of trawlers get impounded, the number trying it on will drop off.

It would also be prudent for UK trawlers to stay well away from EU waters - Marcon in particular will be itching to impound them in retaliation.

Wordsmith
Well let's be fair. The power to impound has existed in EU regs for breaches of quota for a long time. The real problem isn't in the channel, it's in the North sea, part of which is technically international waters despite arbitrary lines etc and to the south is continental shelf disputed by us France and to some extent Spain. The real question is if there's enough boats in our fleet to actually make that much difference. The environmental damage for the EU CFP has already been done according to some conservationists, amongst which is a family friend who worked for CFAS in Scotland.
 

Oyibo

LE
Wasn't Vindaloo a Portuguese Goan thing ?

Comes from the Portuguese 'vin' (wine) and 'd'alho' (of garlic). It's believed that the Portuguese wine turned rather vinegary on its route down to India, and that is why modern vindaloos (or 'vin d'alhos) largely comprise garlic and vinegar.

How's that for thread drift!
 
I can't get out fishing, so instead I've been researching the interaction of EU law and international law, particularly as it relates to ECJ judgements.

The following article is quite heavy going, but bear with it and it provides some interesting insight into the judicial activism of the ECJ, and the inconsistancy of its judgements with respect to international law.

The punchline is that, as set out previously, the EU sees itself above international law where international law conflicts with EU law.


the EUs rather arrogant intellectual supra nationalism is setting it on a rather ’exciting‘ journey with the Americans.
They had their wings singed in the last round with Trump, but don’t seem to have learned, and now, despite the move in the West to disengage with China, here’s the EU now fluttering its eyes at the worlds hyper nationalist technocratic superpower.
 
the EUs rather arrogant intellectual supra nationalism is setting it on a rather ’exciting‘ journey with the Americans.

The more immediate excitement will come from the directly opposing views of the ECJ and the German constituional court. It goes to the heart of competent jurisdiction and will be central to the direction of the EU.
 
Are the ECB (English and Welsh Cricket Board) really going to have oversight of EU finances? Might do a better job actually.
 
The more immediate excitement will come from the directly opposing views of the ECJ and the German constituional court. It goes to the heart of competent jurisdiction and will be central to the direction of the EU.

indeed, but I think the direction has already been decided.
Von Der Leyens ‘Stadt Der Union’ speech seems to be pointing to a newer, more centralised and less tolerant of dissent EU.
The EU cannot funtion as a representative democracy, in it’s current model, it can only run as a one party State, no wonder they are so enamoured of the PRC socialist capitalist command model..
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
200 out of workforce of 8,000 in Canary Wharf, let alone the other London offices, is hardly an exodus!
 

Humperdoo

Clanker
Because the fishing industry is not evenly spread - Austria for example is totally landlocked, while the Italian fishing fleet is largely confined to the Mediterranean. It will primarily affect countries with an Atlantic or North Sea coast; Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland and Denmark.

https://britishseafishing.co.uk/brexit-and-britains-fisheries/

Plus:


The nations that would be especially hit are:

https://marinedevelopments.blog.gov.uk/2018/09/27/mmo-fisheries-statistics-2017-eez/


The UK fishing industry has been stiffed by the EU. If we regain full control over our waters, the EU loses about 575,000 tones of catch which will put many EU trawlers out of business. That almost matches the catch the UK takes in its own waters.

https://marinedevelopments.blog.gov.uk/2018/09/27/mmo-fisheries-statistics-2017-eez/


Looking at this over-simplistically, UK fishermen could be allocated about 300,000 tons of extra catch, while still reducing the overall catch by 275,000 tons, allowing fish sticks to slowly recover.

The EU is looking at losing 10% of its current total catch of 6 million tons. Given that the EU also fishes in the Mediterranean and Baltic, I'll guess that the fishing fleets that fish in UK waters are looking at losing between 20% to 25% of their potential catch. They'll be decimated, while watching the UK fleets prosper.

In addition, the EU is - potentially - watching sustainable fishing introduced to UK waters; which in turn will put the EU under pressure to do the same. But it won't. It'll rape it own waters to keep the fishing fleets in business, which will end up with overfished areas without fish stocks.

Why is the EU screaming? Because it was doing very well indeed out of UK waters - and that is about to end.

Wordsmith
It's not just the catch, but also the processing/sale. Out of the aforementioned vessels, where did they tip/sell? I think alot of people forget that this is just as important, in particular the processing, that's where real job creation happens.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
indeed, but I think the direction has already been decided.
Von Der Leyens ‘Stadt Der Union’ speech seems to be pointing to a newer, more centralised and less tolerant of dissent EU.
The EU cannot funtion as a representative democracy, in it’s current model, it can only run as a one party State, no wonder they are so enamoured of the PRC socialist capitalist command model..
Sort of ein Volk, Ein Reich...?
 

Humperdoo

Clanker
The more immediate excitement will come from the directly opposing views of the ECJ and the German constituional court. It goes to the heart of competent jurisdiction and will be central to the direction of the EU.
So, is this an idealogical argument between competence and corruption then? Which way do you think they will swing?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I can't get out fishing, so instead I've been researching the interaction of EU law and international law, particularly as it relates to ECJ judgements.

The following article is quite heavy going, but bear with it and it provides some interesting insight into the judicial activism of the ECJ, and the inconsistancy of its judgements with respect to international law.

The punchline is that, as set out previously, the EU sees itself above international law where international law conflicts with EU law.


The mistake has been to view the negotiations as trade negotiations. They are not; they are effectively a regional geopolitical power struggle, with the EU attempting to clip the wings of a country it regards as a potential powerful future competitor and baleful influence on the EU's member states.

The EU effectively started it, trying to capitalise on a weak PM (May) and a largely remain supporting parliament to impose restrictions which had no relevance to trade (ECJ/level playing field/fishing). If it were a pure trade negotiation, the EU would simply have stated that all goods sold into the EU from the UK meet EU standard's - which is all it requires of other trading nations. Mutual import tariffs would then have been a matter of negotiation.

Fortunately for the UK, the EU overplayed its hand and ended up with a PM determined to Brexit properly and with the majority to do it. The EU is now crying foul because BoJo is bending the rules to dismantle their attempts to hamstring us.

A rare instance of two wrongs ending up (from the UK's perspective) in a right.

Wordsmith
 

aardvark64

War Hero

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
The more immediate excitement will come from the directly opposing views of the ECJ and the German constitutional court. It goes to the heart of competent jurisdiction and will be central to the direction of the EU.

Indeed it will. If the German constitutional court prevails, it will clip the EU's wings and remove a lot of the EU's ability to apply fiscal stimulus. I get the feeling however, that the situation in Germany is relatively unique; it's one of the few countries with a constitutional court to oversee a written constitution and - as the EU's paymaster - is relatively invulnerable to EU pressure.

If the German constitutional court upholds its judgement, that might force the EU into trying for a successor to the Treaty of Lisbon, with the powers that the German constitutional court has currently declared at ultra vires. And that would open up the fault lines in the EU between countries who want more integration and those who don't. With the added complication for the EU that any single country can block the new treaty.

I wonder what pressures are being applied behind the scenes to get the court to reverse itself? It could be in the process of opening a massive political can of worms.

Wordsmith
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
200 out of workforce of 8,000 in Canary Wharf, let alone the other London offices, is hardly an exodus!
But it gave BL his "headline"! False though it may be.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
So, is this an idealogical argument between competence and corruption then? Which way do you think they will swing?
The ECJ will assert their primacy and point out they are superior to national courts and constitutions - then they will concede to Germany!
 
I wonder what pressures are being applied behind the scenes to get the court to reverse itself? It could be in the process of opening a massive political can of worms.

Wordsmith

As I understand it, the way the court is set up makes it invulnerable to overt meddling and any attempts at covert meddling would prove terminal to the politicians implicated.

I understand the President of the court would not be adverse to getting on his hind legs and making a statement that shenanigans had been attempted...

JB
 

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