What now for the EU ?

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Just an aside to my earlier post. I didn't think much of it at the time being preoccupied, but the MS's have just given the EU commission a resounding slap in the face.
Bearing in mind the founding principles of the EU that they do trade agreements for all member states this came as something of a surprise. It just gets better and better, combined with this;
 
Not quite. Announce fines for non-compliance, wait to see if other countries object, if they do, cancel the fines and offer a bribe instead.

If you look at how the EU reacted to the German migrant crisis, if tried fo grab more powers, fine any country who objected, then after the pushback, the EU offered sweeteners.

Brexit negotiations showed a similar process: start with threats, those didn’t work, so the EU then became more realistic.

The Sausage war? Absolute position with threats, push back, compromise.

The French fisherman and access to British waters? It start with threats and absolutes, then rapidly softened when the rest of the EU decided to not push for decisive action. A compromise will be found.

The EU always starts with threats.
Threats at first glance are an overt expression of power. But in actuality, threats are also a product of weakness. Because why threaten someone if your all powerful, when you can simply act as your will desires and truly sovereign nations like the Americans, Russians(weakest of the big three) and Chinese don't need to threaten all that much to get what they're want.

The EU is an entirely different model and it intentionally created a playground, where they're encourage member states to fight each other and then using the collective authority of all states can act as judge. The Poles like the Hungarians and the French from the outset, have worked out that they're don't have to accept the judgement from on high and the EU despite its pretensions only have an illusion of power.

My fear of the EU was always at some point its delusions would manifest into action and Brexit has certainly intensified that fear, as the institutions are simply incapable of dealing with the member states as equals. I think the EU has already destroyed itself when it allowed the parliament and individual member states to turn the EU institutions into an extension of the culture war and that single act put it in opposition to significant numbers of people across the continent.
 
Having watched Euronews last night , it strikes me that the EU is now in a credibility crisis which must now win. The ECJ has been battered by it’s recent criticism but if Poland says “Stuff you” in respect of the fine just what can the EU do? It is a major bulwark against the Russians and a vital link in Visegrad area.
I’ve often seen parallels between the formation of the EU and the formation of the US. The US Federal Government often had difficulty gaining dominance over states.

For example, the creation of the Second Bank of the United States led to a showdown between Maryland and the Federal Government over some taxation powers. This resulted in the Supreme Court ruling that:

Congress could establish “all means which are appropriate” to fulfill “the legitimate ends” of the Constitution.

Additionally…

This ruling established the doctrine of implied powers, granting Congress a vast source of discretionary power to achieve its constitutional responsibilities…Under the supremacy clause of Article VI, legitimate national laws trump conflicting state laws.

(taken from The Evolution of American Federalism | American Government)

The growing pains of the US could be a useful guide to where the EU is going.

I don’t actually have problem regarding the arrest of a trawler fishing without proper permits. Skip takes the risk.
Ditto. Break the rules, face the consequences.
 
we never uninvited them, it was always down to Visa provision or them having jobs here in the first place. If they left in anticipation they jumped to far too fast. But they were told!
Don't pander to his trolling. The shortage was little to with Brexit and everything to do with Covid.
bl panto.JPG
 

Truxx

LE
we never uninvited them, it was always down to Visa provision or them having jobs here in the first place. If they left in anticipation they jumped to far too fast. But they were told!
Are those the 5.6 million who we invited and who have applied for UK residency? Or the 24000 truck drivers who (surprisingly un-reported by the usual suspects) did not go home when IR35 and Covid struck?
 

Tyk

LE
The sad thing about the EU is the movers and shakers that want an EUSSR/USEU really won't deviate from that course and won't reform.

If the EU wound back the authoritarian anti democratic structures and reformed as a trading block and free travel area (the best bits of the EU) and did away with all the other trash I'd be all for being a member state.

What's happening to Poland is understandably going to unsettle other states and it may well cause a lot of totally avoidable grief. It could bring the EU down long term, in fact without significant reform it's probably the second step in bringing it down, Brexit being the first.
 
just seen in the paper that the French arrested 2 UK fishing boats this morning Brexit LIVE: Fishing war explodes as France detains UK trawler – and it's just the start

i dont really understand what is going on with french fishing licenses other that reading an article a couple of weeks ago that said that the reason some licenses were not being issued ny us was that those fisherman had no record that they had ever fished in those grounds before whereas the ones who have received their licenses had proof they had . So, on the face of it, it looks like some froggie skippers are chancing their arm to get a license to fish in waters they have never fished before but as I said I dont know anymore than that
 
just seen in the paper that the French arrested 2 UK fishing boats this morning Brexit LIVE: Fishing war explodes as France detains UK trawler – and it's just the start

i dont really understand what is going on with french fishing licenses other that reading an article a couple of weeks ago that said that the reason some licenses were not being issued ny us was that those fisherman had no record that they had ever fished in those grounds before whereas the ones who have received their licenses had proof they had . So, on the face of it, it looks like some froggie skippers are chancing their arm to get a license to fish in waters they have never fished before but as I said I dont know anymore than that
That's my take on it too.

We're ready to issue licences once the correct and proper paperwork is submitted - it hasn't been submitted, no licence issued.
 
I wasn't paid for 2 years of caring for a sick and dying loved one, so I don't need pious statements from you. Thanks.
"Pious"??
I think you mean a kick in the balls.
If you need to define "Pious" posts, look back in your posting history for the last 5 years.
I see you were still posting at 4am this morning so we'll forgive you that you're still working your way through the top shelf.
This is quite amusing.

ETA: It's a shit call but entirely expected from you, to use your wife's illness and death to defend your glib comments about people having to work for low wages.
 
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The sad thing about the EU is the movers and shakers that want an EUSSR/USEU really won't deviate from that course and won't reform.

If the EU wound back the authoritarian anti democratic structures and reformed as a trading block and free travel area (the best bits of the EU) and did away with all the other trash I'd be all for being a member state.

What's happening to Poland is understandably going to unsettle other states and it may well cause a lot of totally avoidable grief. It could bring the EU down long term, in fact without significant reform it's probably the second step in bringing it down, Brexit being the first.
In the spirit of my previous post around threats.... Brexit, despite the bone-rattling threats to the British People and our own ruling class under immense pressure to compromise, and yes even Brotherton Lads school yard nipping of smaller kids when the teacher isn't looking. The illusion of power the commission and EU institutions had was shattered in an instant.

Since our exit the EU is the frustrated bully. Who after humiliation are now in a very dangerous mood and frankly a genuine existential threat to the peace of Europe. I think the EU is being driven by the French and becoming obsessed with the idea that any opposition to it, must be confronted immediately and stamped on and that approach will likely only accelerate the decline.
 
In the spirit of my previous post around threats.... Brexit, despite the bone-rattling threats to the British People and our own ruling class under immense pressure to compromise, and yes even Brotherton Lads school yard nipping of smaller kids when the teacher isn't looking. The illusion of power the commission and EU institutions had was shattered in an instant.

Since our exit the EU is the frustrated bully. Who after humiliation are now in a very dangerous mood and frankly a genuine existential threat to the peace of Europe. I think the EU is being driven by the French and becoming obsessed with the idea that any opposition to it, must be confronted immediately and stamped on and that approach will likely only accelerate the decline.
And given some of the Eastern and Balkan states have not long removed the shackles of oppressive regimes I can hardly see them queueing up for swapping those for the EU as it is at current.
 
And given some of the Eastern and Balkan states have not long removed the shackles of oppressive regimes I can hardly see them queueing up for swapping those for the EU as it is at current.
If the EU stopped the cheques to the eastern countries, it would be difficult to see why any of them would desire to remain inside the bloc..

As a sidebar; the psychology is interesting. If you wanted a flashpoint you could do worse than look at our own lunatic fringe of 'remainers' crying about losing their European identity. Of course the UK doesn't settle its differences on the street, but its arguable the EU existence has created an existential threat in every european member state and to some extent the EU has 27 Sudetenland's and not every country exiting the EU can do it without violence and the EU has it in itself to launch coups (see: Italy and Berlusconi or Greece).
 
I’ve often seen parallels between the formation of the EU and the formation of the US. The US Federal Government often had difficulty gaining dominance over states.

For example, the creation of the Second Bank of the United States led to a showdown between Maryland and the Federal Government over some taxation powers. This resulted in the Supreme Court ruling that:

Congress could establish “all means which are appropriate” to fulfill “the legitimate ends” of the Constitution.

Additionally…

This ruling established the doctrine of implied powers, granting Congress a vast source of discretionary power to achieve its constitutional responsibilities…Under the supremacy clause of Article VI, legitimate national laws trump conflicting state laws.

(taken from The Evolution of American Federalism | American Government)

The growing pains of the US could be a useful guide to where the EU is going.


Ditto. Break the rules, face the consequences.
Certainly. The real difference was that the original states signed up to the Declaration of Independence as defined upon declaring independence by Congress. The EU has not essentially declared independence, it is trying to do something that all signatories should have been forced to do upon joining.
 
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