What now for the EU ?

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All this talk about Poland leaving the EU is premature - the Polish population leans far more to staying in the EU than leaving because the are one of the biggest beneficiaries for EU investment - something the EU know only too well and are busy briefing against the anti-EU factions in the Polish govt.

The EU is fully aware that it has/had big problems with Poland, Hungary and Italy and less so in the Czech Republic and Austria whose leaders were not fully EU dependable however, the Austrian Pres and Czech PM have both just been ousted through fraud allegations leaving EU fanatics in their place. whilst the EU has managed through all sorts of sheenanigans and financial incentives to install an unelected Italian President, Draghi - an EU insider and fanatic and is in the process of picking off Poland which will eave Hungary out on a limb.

These events are not just happening in isolation rather, the EU and its operatives in those countries are all very coordinated and active, much like the secretive movements and financiers that did everything to undercut/cancel Brexit in this country. The only way that popular support to leave the EU will arise in Poland is if the EU push it too far but you can bet everything is being carefully stage managed behind the scenes.

Of greater concern to the EU is Eurozone debt mountain arising from never ending QE and the fact that it hasn't produced the desired stimulus in the zone - couple that with no effective German govt and with macron coming under massive pressure in next years elections

With Poland’s turbulent, disjointed history - its very existence dependent upon its neighbours – it might be fair to say that Poland would be hesitant to abandon ANY status quo, with which it was familiar . . . especially, even, that which it has become dependent upon, over the last 25 years.

It is suggested that no real progress will be made with Poland’s situation, until an alternative future is defined, suggested, outside of the EU.

Regrettably, I have not (yet) seen any evidence of this :( .
 
All this talk about Poland leaving the EU is premature - the Polish population leans far more to staying in the EU than leaving because the are one of the biggest beneficiaries for EU investment - something the EU know only too well and are busy briefing against the anti-EU factions in the Polish govt.

The EU is fully aware that it has/had big problems with Poland, Hungary and Italy and less so in the Czech Republic and Austria whose leaders were not fully EU dependable however, the Austrian Pres and Czech PM have both just been ousted through fraud allegations leaving EU fanatics in their place. whilst the EU has managed through all sorts of sheenanigans and financial incentives to install an unelected Italian President, Draghi - an EU insider and fanatic and is in the process of picking off Poland which will eave Hungary out on a limb.

These events are not just happening in isolation rather, the EU and its operatives in those countries are all very coordinated and active, much like the secretive movements and financiers that did everything to undercut/cancel Brexit in this country. The only way that popular support to leave the EU will arise in Poland is if the EU push it too far but you can bet everything is being carefully stage managed behind the scenes.

Of greater concern to the EU is Eurozone debt mountain arising from never ending QE and the fact that it hasn't produced the desired stimulus in the zone - couple that with no effective German govt and with macron coming under massive pressure in next years elections
Poland was one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU investment.

It’s seen it’s population leave to pastures new and it’s investment from the EU is falling.

As many Poles have told me. They appear to have substituted ‘Moscow says’ to ‘Brussels says’ on the radio.

Poland may not leave the EU but it may be the catalyst for driving through much needed change within the EU.

Poland appears to have historically been suppressed and conquered throughout its history.
 
Poland appears to have historically been suppressed and conquered throughout its history.

I'd suggest, it is quite safe to DELETE the word "appears" . . . ;) .
 
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Poland may not leave the EU but it may be the catalyst for driving through much needed change within the EU

thats what David Cameron and the remainers tried to promise but every indication is that the EU is doubling down on its goal of total domination and the eradication of the Nation states via an EU Army, EU law, EU trade protectionism and anything else it can do to cling onto power. If I was Polish I would not trust any EU promises as far as I could throw them - at the moment, just like Hungary, they are quite happily sucking on the EUs teat (bribes) and playing the game for as long as they can - it just depends whether their govt is forced to collapse by internal EU operatives -if I was a betting man I would put good money on something magically emerging from nowhere that threatens their govt such as Fraud or Sex allegations which is how the EU normally gets their way and installs a puppet regime
 
I'd suggest, it is quite safe to DELETE the word "appears" . . . ;) .
I know. Interestingly most of Poland was once part of Prussia.

The poor sods have been used as a battlefield between east and west since it gained independence.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
Channel surfing last night had me stumble upon GB news for the first time, which I gave ten minutes, enough to hear Lembit Opik on the couch talking about the EU.

To my surprise, he said the attitude of the EU in all their dealings with UK and others since the referendum have shown their true colours, and has turned him from Remain voting, pro EU, to being firmly set against them.

Possibly the first talking head I've heard voice a change of opinion.
I personally moderated my views a lot after working (or trying to) in the EU. Their job markets are completely un-reformed, while (at all levels) we have opened up to every Tom, Dick and Harry. This is especially the case for jobs which require professional qualification, where we have been massively exploited.

Do I wish we were still in the EU? For me yes, as I had a finite chance of getting a real gravy train job out of it. Was it the best thing for the average UK worker? Debatable.

Of course it is considered sacrilege by some to have changed your views even microscopically.
 
I personally moderated my views a lot after working (or trying to) in the EU. Their job markets are completely un-reformed, while (at all levels) we have opened up to every Tom, Dick and Harry. This is especially the case for jobs which require professional qualification, where we have been massively exploited.

Do I wish we were still in the EU? For me yes, as I had a finite chance of getting a real gravy train job out of it. Was it the best thing for the average UK worker? Debatable.

Of course it is considered sacrilege by some to have changed your views even microscopically.

thats the thing - if you personally benefit from the EU then great for you but for the millions in every country who dont then it just makes things worse - such as the mega high youth unemployment in southern Europe, the race to the bottom on pay and conditions and the high tarrifs on goods and services due to the EU zone protectionism
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
thats the thing - if you personally benefit from the EU then great for you but for the millions in every country who dont then it just makes things worse - such as the mega high youth unemployment in southern Europe, the race to the bottom on pay and conditions and the high tarrifs on goods and services due to the EU zone protectionism
Completely agree, although some of the things you mention are the fault of national governments. The Latin countries could easily fix most of their problems if they were prepared to e.g defang the unions once and for all.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
thats the thing - if you personally benefit from the EU then great for you but for the millions in every country who dont then it just makes things worse - such as the mega high youth unemployment in southern Europe, the race to the bottom on pay and conditions and the high tarrifs on goods and services due to the EU zone protectionism
But high youth unemployment in Southern Europe is a good thing. It means there is cheap labour to exploit and keeps the peasants wages down in the richer countries meaning more agreeable lifestyles for the well off. Fancy a cheap au pair from Spain? They're quite hygienic and speak reasonable English.
 
Do I wish we were still in the EU? For me yes, as I had a finite chance of getting a real gravy train job out of it. Was it the best thing for the average UK worker?

You're alright Jack, pull the ladder up.

Personally I didn't do too badly, lots of remedial electrical work because Bogdan or Spiros had fùcked it up with his "yes I am electrician" routine.

Rejoin I say invite even more slave labour in to wreck someone's dreams too...
 
Completely agree, although some of the things you mention are the fault of national governments. The Latin countries could easily fix most of their problems if they were prepared to e.g defang the unions once and for all.
I’m not going to criticise you for wanting an option that gave you advantages. My own very pro-EU sister has always felt the UK is dull, boring and full of hateful uncouth yobs, so working and living amongst the more civilised and enlightened (i.e. not Tory) europeans was always good for her.

And the responsibility grey areas between national and EU competencies have always been useful hiding places for national politicians.

I just wish the EU had just remained a trading block of sovereign states with their own currencies; a lot of the current problems would never have happened.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
You're alright Jack, pull the ladder up.

Personally I didn't do too badly, lots of remedial electrical work because Bogdan or Spiros had fùcked it up with his "yes I am electrician" routine.

Rejoin I say invite even more slave labour in to wreck someone's dreams too...
It is interesting how closely remainers motivations align with Thatcherism!

Nearly everybody had very selfish reasons for wanting to stay in the EU. If not to preserve their positions, then to preserve future opportunities.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
I’m not going to criticise you for wanting an option that gave you advantages. My own very pro-EU sister has always felt the UK is dull, boring and full of hateful uncouth yobs, so working and living amongst the more civilised and enlightened (i.e. not Tory) europeans was always good for her.

I’m about as highly educated skilled as you can get, and the reason I left the UK was the absolute tossers I was forced to work with. The class system is alive and well, and I got tired of being pushed out of the way by Oxbridge types. It is even worse now that they use all the diversity crap to keep good people down.

Fortunately they are actually too lazy to emigrate themselves. It is all about the skiing (which they are uniformly shit at) and the summer holidays. And putting EU stars ion their profile pictures.
 
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Alamo

LE
I’m about as highly educated as you can get, and the reason I left the UK was the absolute tossers I was forced to work with. The class system is alive and well, and I got tired of being pushed out of the way by Oxbridge types. It is even worse now that they use all the diversity crap to keep good people down.

Fortunately they are actually too lazy to emigrate themselves. It is all about the skiing (which they are uniformly shit at) and the summer holidays. And putting EU stars ion their profile pictures.
Pity you’re not in the UK, you could get a humility jab on the NHS.
 
I’m about as highly educated as you can get, and the reason I left the UK was the absolute tossers I was forced to work with. The class system is alive and well, and I got tired of being pushed out of the way by Oxbridge types. It is even worse now that they use all the diversity crap to keep good people down.

Fortunately they are actually too lazy to emigrate themselves. It is all about the skiing (which they are uniformly shit at) and the summer holidays. And putting EU stars ion their profile pictures.

You're not Oxbridge though. So, you might think you are but you're not part of the network old chap. There is no link between education and intelligence. If there is, it is tenuous at best.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
You're not Oxbridge though. So, you might think you are but you're not part of the network old chap. There is no link between education and intelligence. If there is, it is tenuous at best.
Not English either, which seems to be a major disadvantage in the liberal institutions of our smaller nations.




The presence of *cough* a few small chips on my shoulder might be a clue as to my origins!
 
But high youth unemployment in Southern Europe is a good thing. It means there is cheap labour to exploit and keeps the peasants wages
which is at best an utter failure of the left wing whilst they whinge against the right wing for not raising the standard of living. It proves there is no shortage of workers, but a sizeable reduction in job vacancies aided in part by the workers organisations themselves.
 
I know. Interestingly most of Poland was once part of Prussia.

The poor sods have been used as a battlefield between east and west since it gained independence.
If you look at their history they have also been more than happy to create an Empire when their neighbours are weak.
That is not a criticism, just a fact.
 
I know. Interestingly most of Poland was once part of Prussia.

The poor sods have been used as a battlefield between east and west since it gained independence.

If you look at their history they have also been more than happy to create an Empire when their neighbours are weak.
That is not a criticism, just a fact.

Most of what I posted below was a revelation to me . . .

 
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