What now for the EU ?

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interesting. Despite the synergies of the histories of Britain France and Poland, lets not forget that Cameron triggered a referendum that hasn't happened yet in Poland. It's quite possible that the Poles didn't have quite the same legal framework for joining the EU as we inherited under the TFEU. Either way Poland leaving the bloc could be bad move for the EU and if they use money as the means of alienating Poland, I'm sure vlad would be only to willing to oblige. The fact that the EU has stuffed it's courts with political appointees is no different to Poland in that respect. Plain fact is I don't see the Poles giving in and I don't see what else Eu can do that will alter that.
Agree except those Poles who I have talked to about this hate Vlad as well.
Poland is actively preparing to withstand him and would like NATO help, not EU.
 
interesting. Despite the synergies of the histories of Britain France and Poland, lets not forget that Cameron triggered a referendum that hasn't happened yet in Poland. It's quite possible that the Poles didn't have quite the same legal framework for joining the EU as we inherited under the TFEU. Either way Poland leaving the bloc could be bad move for the EU and if they use money as the means of alienating Poland, I'm sure vlad would be only to willing to oblige. The fact that the EU has stuffed it's courts with political appointees is no different to Poland in that respect. Plain fact is I don't see the Poles giving in and I don't see what else Eu can do that will alter that.
Without your reference to Putin and Russia . . . as already suggested by @javaguzzisti . . . I too, would agree with everything you suggest ;) .

I can feel the urge to - again - re-post my proposal for a "Northern Economic Community" . . . ;) .
 
I'm certainly not an expert on the matter so would be gratefully corrected if needed, but I've always felt we massively let down Poland during and after WW2. I've always found them to be good people, with solid ethics, hardworking and back in my band days we played there a few times (even recorded a video there) and enjoyed the experience - this was back in the late 90s' when it was still in early recovery mode from being behind the curtain.

Anyway, frankly, if I was Poland, I'd be horribly aware of history repeating itself and the West, throwing them under the bus again at the first sign of blood.
 
I'm certainly not an expert on the matter so would be gratefully corrected if needed, but I've always felt we massively let down Poland during and after WW2. I've always found them to be good people, with solid ethics, hardworking and back in my band days we played there a few times (even recorded a video there) and enjoyed the experience - this was back in the late 90s' when it was still in early recovery mode from being behind the curtain.

Anyway, frankly, if I was Poland, I'd be horribly aware of history repeating itself and the West, throwing them under the bus again at the first sign of blood.
Don't confuse those EU bastards in Brussels, with the bigger, more open minded, pragmatic, greater number of members within NATO !!

Poland has a longer, more deep-seated relationshipship with its immediate neighbours, that comprise the Visegrad Four . . . than it does with the EU/Brussels . . . and, it is not beyond possibilities, that Hungary would take its cue from Poland, and (also), exit-stage-left !!
 
Don't confuse those EU bastards in Brussels, with the bigger, more open minded, pragmatic, greater number of members within NATO !!

Poland has a longer, more deep-seated relationshipship with its immediate neighbours, that comprise the Visegrad Four . . . than it does with the EU/Brussels . . . and, it is not beyond possibilities, that Hungary would take its cue from Poland, and (also), exit-stage-left !!
I was more thinking if Russia decided to flex.
 
Agree except those Poles who I have talked to about this hate Vlad as well.
Poland is actively preparing to withstand him and would like NATO help, not EU.
But, but, but...the mighty EU has kept the Bear st bay for the last 75 years. Well that's the impression I'm getting. What's that you say? They haven't got am army? Well I'll be a monkeys uncle.
 

Auld-Yin

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But, but, but...the mighty EU has kept the Bear st bay for the last 75 years. Well that's the impression I'm getting. What's that you say? They haven't got am army? Well I'll be a monkeys uncle.
Just goes to show what big scaredy cats the Russians are!
 
Agree except those Poles who I have talked to about this hate Vlad as well.
Poland is actively preparing to withstand him and would like NATO help, not EU.
Euronews has opined that leaving the EU is not what the Poles want, but they do not want to fall prey to Vlad's whims. This would, at first sight, appear to strengthen the EU's hands. However they are into dangerous territory with stating that structural funds and Covid relief funds are dependent on towing the line, when they haven't been before, unless I misunderstand the situation, the structural funds have never been dependent on anything other than normal repayment plans, applicable as they are to membership as a criteria.
 
Just remake EFTA. That's all I ever wanted
Well, the "Just for Trade" basis, principles, would be just the same . . . but, of course the geo-politics are now different . . .

On the principle, that the more times I post the following, the better the chance that it might be noticed by those nice people in Whitehall who monitor this thread, it may be appropriate to repeat the contents of an earlier post . . .

It is to be hoped that someone within the (post-) UK BREXIT team, is pencilling-in the idea of a purely economic, simply-for-trade, "Northern Economic Community" (NEC).

The UK has always worked well with the three Scandinavian countries, to which should be included Finland - now that it has found (been allowed to find) its "own voice".

The "Visegrad Four", will be as disillusioned as anyone, finding themselves part of "The EuroSSR". Not quite, what they expected after their escape from their enforced influence of, and domination by, the Soviet’s “SSSR”

Should they wish to, on the grounds of practical, defence viability, the three Baltic States would add/complete, a geographical, coherent, whole, virtually surrounding the North Sea and the Baltic Sea.

With the remaining southern states/north Mediterranean countries; and, the three BeNeLux countries; then faced with the only alternative of the Franco-German axis, it would be interesting to speculate to which group they would all gravitate.

We ALL stay within NATO . . . obviously!

Nordic Council - Wikipedia

Baltic Assembly - Wikipedia

Visegrád Group - Wikipedia
 
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Just remake EFTA. That's all I ever wanted
Just one problem with that one Leo, they really couldn't justify 27 Commissioner ranks on €270,000 each p.a + subsistence of €400+ a day and plus a driver available on a 24 hour basis and even accommodation all found.
Oh, and also for 3 full years after leaving but we must remember to call it a transition allowance.

Nor could EFTA justify 33 Directorate Generals on €269,000 each p.a. plus the same pittances for living with your family elsewhere than in your own country.

Or a couple of Presidents on in excess of €392,000 plus the same pittances.

No wonder that the admin costs have recently jumped from 6 to 8% of the EU budget.
I do wonder what the cost of administering the EFTA was back then?
 
The "Visegrad Four", will be as disillusioned as anyone, finding themselves part of "The EuroSSR". Not quite, what they expected after their escape from their enforced influence of, and domination by, the Soviet’s “SSSR”
If, on the other hand you had a remake of the Hansa trading bloc, most of the Baltic states including Poland would have an outlet, plus despite Kaliningrad being in the Baltic it would make egress for the Russians more problematic. They wouldn’t be able to phart without us knowing. Now link that up with the Nordic states and the Dutch. We could make hay, as they say
 

Clunker

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No the French say they are suave, sophisticated, intellectually gifted...everyone else thinks they are c***s
Their favourite idea summed by the french word "Chauvinisme"

(French chauvinisme after Nicolas Chauvin , a legendary French soldier famous for his devotion to Napoleon)
 
All this talk about Poland leaving the EU is premature - the Polish population leans far more to staying in the EU than leaving because the are one of the biggest beneficiaries for EU investment - something the EU know only too well and are busy briefing against the anti-EU factions in the Polish govt.

The EU is fully aware that it has/had big problems with Poland, Hungary and Italy and less so in the Czech Republic and Austria whose leaders were not fully EU dependable however, the Austrian Pres and Czech PM have both just been ousted through fraud allegations leaving EU fanatics in their place. whilst the EU has managed through all sorts of sheenanigans and financial incentives to install an unelected Italian President, Draghi - an EU insider and fanatic and is in the process of picking off Poland which will eave Hungary out on a limb.

These events are not just happening in isolation rather, the EU and its operatives in those countries are all very coordinated and active, much like the secretive movements and financiers that did everything to undercut/cancel Brexit in this country. The only way that popular support to leave the EU will arise in Poland is if the EU push it too far but you can bet everything is being carefully stage managed behind the scenes.

Of greater concern to the EU is Eurozone debt mountain arising from never ending QE and the fact that it hasn't produced the desired stimulus in the zone - couple that with no effective German govt and with macron coming under massive pressure in next years elections
 
As a follow on of the Polish legal ruling ( and the sh1tfest that will follow ) over supremacy of EU Law

France

With a presidential election just months away, French politicians have embarked on a spree of EU-bashing — boosted by a Polish court ruling that challenged the legal bedrock of the European Union.

The strong criticism of the EU and calls for France to assert its national sovereignty have come not just from the usual suspects on the far right but from presidential hopefuls who are part of the country’s political mainstream.


The European Commission has made clear that EU law has primacy over national law, including national constitutions. If a contrary view were to become political orthodoxy in a country as central to the European project as France, that could raise serious questions about the EU’s future.

Oh, dear, how sad.jpg
 
^
The European Commission has made clear that EU law has primacy over national law, including national constitutions. If a contrary view were to become political orthodoxy in a country as central to the European project as France, that could raise serious questions about the EU’s future.

I am still trying to work out how this works, if as the EU says, that refendums based on treaty changes are dependent on the constitutions of the MSs.

It makes no sense at all that within the confines of the treaty EU law has primacy, but when it comes to treaty change it’s the member states who call the shots, which The commission then ignores.
 
I think that there is a distinct possibility that Bozza has spotted this, hence the meeting with the visegrad group.

Sorry . . . is "Bozza" our Boris ?! :( .

When, where, why, is this "meeting with the visegrad group" ?!

Why wasn't I told ?! ;) .
 
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