What now for the EU ?

Of course there is a BREXIT narrative. Its the whole British Myth. 1940 is our Greatest hour. How Britain saved Europe (again)
That is nonsense, it certainly had nothing to do with why I voted, half of me was the other side remember. My issue has always been with the institution not Europe as a whole. It's the broader issues of an unelected commission dictating to elected representatives of member states what effectively their policy should be, whilst at the same time not having the means to replace the institutional set ups in order to centralise things.

It hasn't worked. There's a reason for that , the member states have not given up their Sovereignty to the EU lock stock an barrel. There is no point in Europe now Imposing Frontex in Poland without it doing so throughout the EU. That should have been done with immediate effect in 08.

But what has the EU repeatedly said, It does not want to interfere sovereign matters? Some cookie that. Of course the narrative is trying to be reversed, how an organisation that never existed in 1945 won us the war, perhaps they'd care to iterate why it was that the EU never prevented Hitler.? You do realise that the media has imposed the 1940 as a parody, we haven't bitten because of that, just because it's funny, which is more than can be said for modern output.
 

civvy

Old-Salt
Are you just impersonating David Lammy MP for shits and giggles, or are you really that thick?

If the UK had fallen in 1940 then when the war in Europe would have eventually ended (probably 1948/49) and the whole landmass would have been under the boot of Stalin. The Americans wouldn't have been able to establish any foothold in Europe, and so would never have been able to invade any part of Europe, and the loss of the British ports (and Royal Navy) would have given supremacy over the Atlantic to the Germans, thus rendering any attempt to establish bases in northern Africa impossible.

Your above comment about "peace in Europe" shows you conflate the EU with Europe: two extremely different geographical areas... or perhaps the 100,000 dead in Bosnia passed you by (something that the EU did nothing to prevent - the French worked to prolong the war for their Serb allies). You may also want to remember the dead in Hungary and Czechoslovakia in the risings against Russian communism: they are also in Europe.


That's the problem with Remainers. They are so...

Insular.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
I came across this interesting perspective on the Anglo-French relationship and thought I'd share:

 

Pteranadon

LE
Book Reviewer
Are you just impersonating David Lammy MP for shits and giggles, or are you really that thick?

(1) If the UK had fallen in 1940 then when the war in Europe would have eventually ended (probably 1948/49) and the whole landmass would have been under the boot of Stalin. The Americans wouldn't have been able to establish any foothold in Europe, and so would never have been able to invade any part of Europe, and the loss of the British ports (and Royal Navy) would have given supremacy over the Atlantic to the Germans, thus rendering any attempt to establish bases in northern Africa impossible.

(2) Your above comment about "peace in Europe" shows you conflate the EU with Europe: two extremely different geographical areas... or perhaps the 100,000 dead in Bosnia passed you by (something that the EU did nothing to prevent - the French worked to prolong the war for their Serb allies). You may also want to remember the dead in Hungary and Czechoslovakia in the risings against Russian communism: they are also in Europe.
Should I ignore the gratuitious personal insults - or accept them use licence to reference the lack of sanity in much of the Europhobe bollocks....

Re1 You have misread my post, possibly because of your rush to share your David Lammy witicism. I am very aware that there is an alternative narrative to that championed by Liberation Route Europe (1943-1990) telling the tale of the long march to the sun lit uplands of the EU. I work in tourism and have to accept BREXIT as a fact of buisness life.

The point about Liberation Route Europe is that it works. I have watched the Europeans build musuems and visitor attractions based on Remembrance. Contacts made via LRE have enabled me to scratch a living as a self employed tour guide. We are busy closing military museums. LRE joines the dots between the ttourism trade and investment in destinations and facilites that bring tourism and investment to new places.. In Britian we are worried about too many tourists overwhelming the obvious destinatins -but the main money promoting inboud tourism is those places that already have tourists.

There is a case for copying what LRE does for whatever narrative we want to construct for Britain's Remembrance or military heritage. One obvious theme is how pragmatic Britons have saved Europe from megalomaniacs from Spanish imperialism the wars against French hegemony in the name of the Sun King the Revolution and Napoleon and the Germans. Fitchetts history even gives the name to the campaign "How England Saved Europe" But that is not something the current government seem interested in. As far as they seem to be concerned DCMS is a place to wage culture wars not support our largest export earning industry outsidfe financial services.

Re 2 Thanks - almost completed the- Europhobe Bingo card... Agreed, the EU did not prevent the Balkan wars of the 1990s. Nor did it prevent the conflicts in the middle east or Rwanda or the loss of life in uprisings in Soviet occupied central Europe. But none of these places were members of the EU,. Membership of the EU and its predecessors the EEC and ECSC was to prevent fiuture conflict between member states, not create world peace in adjoining territory.
 
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Easy. You’re using pro-Remain tropes to try to provoke hostility online. You’re just a troll.

Again, if you engage long enough, the true nature comes through.


When you look at this idiots posting history, it only involves 3 subjects 1) a few posts about wondertanks v sherman tanks in 2017 2) 1 solitary post on sunday on this thread "What now the Labour Party?" and 3) all the rest on this one starting on tuesday.
Methinks it is one of the paid EU trolls who latched on to a dormant a/c.
Perhaps the Mod's could investigate and bin it!!
 
When you look at this idiots posting history, it only involves 3 subjects 1) a few posts about wondertanks v sherman tanks in 2017 2) 1 solitary post on sunday on this thread "What now the Labour Party?" and 3) all the rest on this one starting on tuesday.
Methinks it is one of the paid EU trolls who latched on to a dormant a/c.
Perhaps the Mod's could investigate and bin it!!


I wonder if its the web's version of this prat ...

anti-brexit-protesters-outside-houses-of-parliament-westminster-london-uk-2A61BY7.jpg
 

humble

Old-Salt
When you look at this idiots posting history, it only involves 3 subjects 1) a few posts about wondertanks v sherman tanks in 2017 2) 1 solitary post on sunday on this thread "What now the Labour Party?" and 3) all the rest on this one starting on tuesday.
Methinks it is one of the paid EU trolls who latched on to a dormant a/c.
Perhaps the Mod's could investigate and bin it!!
Yet more proof of the Leave voters (lack of?) educational standards.
PS
If there are any Euros to be had out there then please explain to me how I can get my hands on them. I do it for free at the moment but am always open to a bit of sponsorship.
 
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humble

Old-Salt
Should I ignore the gratuitious personal insults - or accept them use licence to reference the lack of sanity in much of the Europhobe bollocks....
We laugh at the MAGA Morons at our peril. They already have a toe-hold here and the lack of a serious challenge to their ignorant insanity has only emboldened them.
 

anglo

LE
Yes. The EU was set up with the laudable aim of avoiding future European wars.

Peace has reigned for longer in Europe since 1945 for longer than any period in history. No EU members have ever fought each other (unlike NATO members) It may be that this might have happened any way without the European movement, the EEC and the EU. But the concept of pooled sovereignty is in tensions with the very human tendency to tribalism and in direct opposition to the nationalism that stirred the continent.

The longer the continent has been at peace, the more people forget what is at stake. That seems a reasonable argument. .
The EU was set up with the laudable aim of avoiding future European wars.

Bullshit


Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”
-- Jean Monnet
 
Rather than marking this post as dumb, you could at least offer an answer. Or do I conclude that the dictatorship of the commission one of the unchallangeable articles of faith of Europhobia?
Well, I already gave you an example that you generously ignored. This at least leads to the assumption that you simply don't want to perceive things that don't quite fit into your concept of the great EU. Therefore you should not be surprised or complain when the more robust of those you call Europhobes give you a dumb. By the way, your Europhobic is of course also personally insulting, opposing the EU is the duty of every good European.

But now to your original question. The EU itself says it will do this.


The Commission will take steps if an EU country:

  • does not fully incorporate a directive into its national law by the set deadline
  • might not have applied EU law correctly
If national authorities fail to properly implement EU laws, the Commission may launch a formal infringement procedure against the country in question. If the issue is still not settled, the Commission may eventually refer the case to the European Court of Justice.


The EU is trying nothing other than to suspend and destroy the constitution of my country - which, by the way, has a guarantee of eternity after the experiences with the Nazis.
It is trying to disempower the highest constitutional body and to destroy the political system. However, our constitution has already provided for this eventuality in Article 20.


"Against anyone who undertakes to eliminate this order, all Germans have the right to resist if no other remedy is possible." What is meant is the order of parliamentary democracy, the social state and the federal state governed by the rule of law, which are mentioned in Article 20(1) to (3).

The article of resistance is addressed to the citizens - quite different from the regulations that were inserted into the Basic Law at the same time as the emergency constitution. While these are intended to strengthen the state's ability to act in crisis situations, Article 20(4) explicitly empowers citizens.
 
Well, I already gave you an example that you generously ignored. This at least leads to the assumption that you simply don't want to perceive things that don't quite fit into your concept of the great EU. Therefore you should not be surprised or complain when the more robust of those you call Europhobes give you a dumb. By the way, your Europhobic is of course also personally insulting, opposing the EU is the duty of every good European.

But now to your original question. The EU itself says it will do this.


The Commission will take steps if an EU country:

  • does not fully incorporate a directive into its national law by the set deadline
  • might not have applied EU law correctly
If national authorities fail to properly implement EU laws, the Commission may launch a formal infringement procedure against the country in question. If the issue is still not settled, the Commission may eventually refer the case to the European Court of Justice.


The EU is trying nothing other than to suspend and destroy the constitution of my country - which, by the way, has a guarantee of eternity after the experiences with the Nazis.
It is trying to disempower the highest constitutional body and to destroy the political system. However, our constitution has already provided for this eventuality in Article 20.


"Against anyone who undertakes to eliminate this order, all Germans have the right to resist if no other remedy is possible." What is meant is the order of parliamentary democracy, the social state and the federal state governed by the rule of law, which are mentioned in Article 20(1) to (3).

The article of resistance is addressed to the citizens - quite different from the regulations that were inserted into the Basic Law at the same time as the emergency constitution. While these are intended to strengthen the state's ability to act in crisis situations, Article 20(4) explicitly empowers citizens.
I thought it was well known that when it comes to a mismatch between domestic law and European law, European Law has supremacy over the laws passed by the national parliaments and enacted within the national borders.

That gives the Commission the ability to override any country’s parliament, even if 100% of the members of that parliament backed the national law.

I wonder if we can now address the articles of faith from those who worship at the Remain altar.

There are so many to choose from, but I’ll start by asking for a single benefit that the EU provides that could not be provided by any other means.
 

humble

Old-Salt
“There is a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy. It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe.”
 
Membership of the EU and its predecessors the EEC and ECSC was to prevent fiuture conflict between member states, not create world peace in adjoining territory.

That is incorrect.
 

anglo

LE
“There is a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy. It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe.”
We must build a United States of Europe ruled by elites, who are impossible to be voted out
 
But is part of the re-writing of history to show the EU in the best light possible.

It’s all a little pointless really. What we are experiencing is simply called life.

The UK made a democratic decision to leave, come what may and anyone that thinks everything was either going to be all good or all bad as a result of that decision is more than a little naive.
 

Dread

LE
Rather than marking this post as dumb, you could at least offer an answer. Or do I conclude that the dictatorship of the commission one of the unchallangeable articles of faith of Europhobia?

On one level you can look at almost every Directive issued by the Commission: they were created with zero democratic oversight or input by elected representatives while being 'crafted', indeed, the Commission not only refuses to disclose whom various Commissioners have met, but also these conversations are not even minuted, and often take place without any civil servant/official being present, and the EU Parliament cannot amend a single word of any of them: they are all voted through with almost zero discussion.

Want an example? How about when Peter Mandybum was the Commissioner for Trade, and was photographed spending weeks aboard the mega-yacht of Oleg Deripaska (the Russian aluminium oligarch) after dropping EU tariffs against Russian aluminium imports? The cost to the UK was a few thousand unemployed. Mandybum never declared the stay on the yacht, despite the rental of an equivalent being about EUR 1 million per week. But then, by EU rules he never had to declare it or any of his meetings. Why do you think Deripaska, a noted homophobe (as are all of Putin's inner circle), let the flamboyant Mandybum on his boat?

Did any EU member state demand that cucumbers across the EU be within certain tolerances? Did any member state demand (with or without the approval of their electorate) that every single car sold from next year in the EU be subject to remote control and be unable to exceed the signposted speed limits, or any other such speed limits as sent through GPRS/4G/5G? System goes live in 2025 BTW.

How about VAT levels? The UK was forced to apply VAT on female sanitary products by the Commission, against the stated will of the elected UK government.

How about the EU Commission going against the democratically elected government of Poland for their reforms to the Polish legal system? The government had stated the reforms in their election manifesto, and yet the Commission is demanding that the new rules be dropped. How's that for dictatorial? What's that? Not enough dead?

Then how about the EU Commission's ruling on migrants from N. Africa and the M.E? Various countries along the Mediterranean have proposed solutions to stop the flow of migrants, and the annual death toll of several thousands: over 50,000 migrants have died in the last 10 years, and still the EU refuses to allow member states to take unilateral action. So what does the EU do? Nothing. It sits on its arrse and watches as thousands die. Nice.
 
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