What now for the EU ?

At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.
And yet they insult your country and harm it where they can and all because in the UK they have opted for sovereignty from an organisation called the EU which has no proper parliamentary control, is governed by a mysterious commission and an obscure council of ministers.
These are your closest neighbours and your most important ally.
But we also have them as our "closest" neighbour and "important" ally, and that's why it's quite easy to assess what the French are.

But you've already thrown the buzzword of the convinced Great Europeans into the ring, Europhobes, and that makes any further discussion superfluous, doesn't it? Irrational, nationalistic, xenophobic vermin or gammon, these EUrophobes.

But we should not, on today's 19th September, a feast day that is celebrating its 665th anniversary, lapse into vain thoughts about why the French are so great, but remember that they were treated properly in earlier times.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.

That the France that was actively hostile towards the U.K. during the BREXIT negotiations, doing everything in its power to hurt the U.K. as much as possible, that France?
 

arfah

ADC
Could the UK Government please set up an extortionate 0898 number for the EU to dial every time they want to involve us in some scheme beneficial to them?

Should the UK ever feel the need to reciprocate, reverse the charges.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.
Macron has had a ridiculous hissy fit, probably for political reasons. That’s why he is being laughed at.

He’s a bit miffed because the Australians have changed their minds on buying Submarines from France. They’ve realised that the French submarines do not meet their strategic needs.

Should they have considered asking the French to build them nuclear subs instead? Possibly but it’s such a niche market that I’m sure they did look at that option and realise that there really is only one viable procurement route.

The thing I don’t understand is that all the usual suspects told us that the so called Special Relationship was over and that the anti-British plastic Paddy in the Whitehouse was going to be best amis avec l’EU. Seems they got that wrong along with every other prediction of doom and gloom.
 

arfah

ADC
Macron has had a ridiculous hissy fit, probably for political reasons. That’s why he is being laughed at.

He’s a bit miffed because the Australians have changed their minds on buying Submarines from France. They’ve realised that the French submarines do not meet their strategic needs.

Should they have considered asking the French to build them nuclear subs instead? Possibly but it’s such a niche market that I’m sure they did look at that option and realise that there really is only one viable procurement route.

The thing I don’t understand is that all the usual suspects told us that the so called Special Relationship was over and that the anti-British plastic Paddy in the Whitehouse was going to be best amis avec l’EU. Seems they got that wrong along with every other prediction of doom and gloom.

One of my eyebrows did raise slightly, too.
 
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.
And of course they have never stabbed us in the back at every opportunity

no siree, not once
 

Truxx

LE
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.
A poor move for who?

Genuine question.
 
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.
On the other hand we can remember the furore when France insisted our colonial interest could not be brought in when we joined the EEC . France wouldn’t be able to take on the Chinese alone either. French territories had the right to ask France, ours had to ask the EU In the case of natural disasters. In this perennial face slapping contest, let’s just remember that. On reflection I would take issue with your third paragraph but we have come off somewhat worse for our involvement with French policies. Of course the French have always sought to control Britain, they usually take umbrage at the reverse.
 

Truxx

LE
I think the Aussies took a look at the fFrench sub user manuals.

I have a fFrench heavy truck. It has a user manual. Obviously originally written in fFrench it appears to have had its text stuck into google translate, translated into Swahili, then the Swahili text stuck into google translate a second time and converted from Swahili into Mandarin. Then done a third time and translated into English.

This result is that it makes a Haynes Manual look like the oracle.
 
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.

Hmmm.

A fat bagful of 'Disagrees' for that post - though I've not been childish enough to button-stab.

France's only ally has ever been (and always will be) France, no matter the treaty de jour.

Wiser heads decided that the generous terms for the very noisy diesel subs really didn't fit the Australian strategic outlook.

Oz has two remaining oil refineries.

Two. And the bulk of its oil is imported. By sea.

PLAN, currently, builds the equivalent of the RN every year.* The option to close off Oz quite quickly is writ large, if relations ever deteriorated so drastically.

. . . and, historically, Britain has fought more wars against France than we have as allies.

* China Building Formidable Amphibious Fleet
 
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I think the Aussies took a look at the fFrench sub user manuals.

I have a fFrench heavy truck. It has a user manual. Obviously originally written in fFrench it appears to have had its text stuck into google translate, translated into Swahili, then the Swahili text stuck into google translate a second time and converted from Swahili into Mandarin. Then done a third time and translated into English.

This result is that it makes a Haynes Manual look like the oracle.
Aerospace manuals are always in English regardless of origin. Translating or re-writing a sub manual from the native language to English would put about 10% on the cost.
 
Aerospace manuals are always in English regardless of origin. Translating or re-writing a sub manual from the native language to English would put about 10% on the cost.
The French don't even do it well.
Having dealt with a number of French helicopter manuals in translation there are a number of expressions that don't make sense. Clearly drawn from a French English glossary of some sort.
I was told you only translate into your own language, the French appear not to hold this as a truth.
 

Oyibo

LE
Aerospace manuals are always in English regardless of origin. Translating or re-writing a sub manual from the native language to English would put about 10% on the cost.

When I worked for an oil company they had an English-French, French-English dictionary. Or rather, several volumes of the dictionary. It was enormous.

And it didn't take into account many different English meanings. God knows what it would be like translating a nuclear sub manual.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
The French don't even do it well.
Having dealt with a number of French helicopter manuals in translation there are a number of expressions that don't make sense. Clearly drawn from a French English glossary of some sort.
I was told you only translate into your own language, the French appear not to hold this as a truth.

The Germans speak English with a German accent
The French speak French with an English accent
 

O Zangado

War Hero
At the risk of being contrarian, this looks like a poor move. Sure enjoy the French discomfiture in the great English tradition. BUT

France has genuine interests in the area, not merely a desire to be seen as Global. New Caledonia is a French Overseas territory whose 250k inhabitants rejected two independence referenda in the last five years. Its a more populated version of the Falklands and its inhabitants are EU Citizens. Pissing off a significant nuclear armed military power with a stake in the region doesn't seem a great way to build an alliance against the Chinese.

Despite BREXIT France is our closest neighbour. The French have been an important ally for the last 120 years, the best armed of the European powers and a partner of choice for joint acitivies outside the NATO Alliance.

Slapping them in the face is fun for the Europhobes who currently run the country, but not in Britian's best interest.

Have you ever been to the ffFrench imperial empire in the South Pacific, because it doesn't sound like it. Get off the plane at Noumea (New Caledonia) and the first three things you see are a gendarme, a Peu-grot patrol car and the fekkin' tricolor. It is hugely expensive with living costs almost at Paris levels.The prime and probably only reason for this situation, oddly in the present circumstances, is to maintain Air ffFrance's rights to international routes to Australasia. At the other end of the scale, fly to Nuku Hiva (Marquesas Islands), one of the most remote airports in the world, and watch a once proud, now sullen Polynesian sloping along the road in his thongs (Fillipe Filopps:rofl:) with a bag full of lamb flaps in one hand and half a dozen baguettes tucked under his other arm. It is a forlorn, miserable and neglected place.

One lucky escapee was the New Hebrides, now Vanuatu, thanks in no small part to the efforts of an old school diplomat, Andrew Stuart, the last British High Commissioner of the joint British/French condominium (known locally as the pandemonium) and a wonderful man who, I strongly suspect, was appointed because he was 6' 7'' tall, towering over his fffFrench opposite number who was the size of Napoleon Sarkosy Macron. Here is a link to his obituary with some interesting background gen and which I hope is not behind the Torygraph's paywall:-


On my last visit there, the High Commission had been closed and European representation was handled by the European Union ffs, with a grotty little office on the harbour front in Port Vila. C'est la vie, I suppose. The Eurocrat running the show addressed me in fffFrench, the ignorant bâtard, so although I am reasonably proficient in that foul language, I spoke nothing but English throughout the meeting. DCI Hunt would have approved even though I didn't punch the fffekker for his insolence.

OZ
 
And what has France ever done to piss us off?

That's right, nothing.

Ever our best friends.


Hmm .. remember this from the big nosed git we sheltered in the UK in WW2


snip "It has been 50 years since four words uttered by then French President Charles de Gaulle gave an international voice to Quebec's burgeoning sovereignist movement and caused a diplomatic incident.
There are a host of events planned across the province to mark July 24, 1967, the day de Gaulle stood on a balcony at Montreal city hall and shouted "Vive le Québec libre!" to a crowd gathered below.
Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson criticized the speech, saying de Gaulle's "statements were unacceptable to the Canadian people." The French president skipped his planned events in Ottawa and returned to France early."
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
" The French president skipped his planned events in Ottawa and returned to France early."
Has anyone ever been disappointed when a French President had returned home early?

I think Macron is coming to Glasgow in November. He’s welcome to skip it or leave early.
 

Dumb1

War Hero
Have you ever been to the ffFrench imperial empire in the South Pacific, because it doesn't sound like it. Get off the plane at Noumea (New Caledonia) and the first three things you see are a gendarme, a Peu-grot patrol car and the fekkin' tricolor. It is hugely expensive with living costs almost at Paris levels.The prime and probably only reason for this situation, oddly in the present circumstances, is to maintain Air ffFrance's rights to international routes to Australasia. At the other end of the scale, fly to Nuku Hiva (Marquesas Islands), one of the most remote airports in the world, and watch a once proud, now sullen Polynesian sloping along the road in his thongs (Fillipe Filopps:rofl:) with a bag full of lamb flaps in one hand and half a dozen baguettes tucked under his other arm. It is a forlorn, miserable and neglected place.

One lucky escapee was the New Hebrides, now Vanuatu, thanks in no small part to the efforts of an old school diplomat, Andrew Stuart, the last British High Commissioner of the joint British/French condominium (known locally as the pandemonium) and a wonderful man who, I strongly suspect, was appointed because he was 6' 7'' tall, towering over his fffFrench opposite number who was the size of Napoleon Sarkosy Macron. Here is a link to his obituary with some interesting background gen and which I hope is not behind the Torygraph's paywall:-


On my last visit there, the High Commission had been closed and European representation was handled by the European Union ffs, with a grotty little office on the harbour front in Port Vila. C'est la vie, I suppose. The Eurocrat running the show addressed me in fffFrench, the ignorant bâtard, so although I am reasonably proficient in that foul language, I spoke nothing but English throughout the meeting. DCI Hunt would have approved even though I didn't punch the fffekker for his insolence.

OZ

Archived copy of the obit
 

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