What now for the EU ?

Its a bizarre thing, US Presidents claiming heritage to a country they know nothing of, Bush family, Irish, Clinton Irish, Regan Irish, Trump Scottish, Obama Somalian or something, Biden Irish, Jimmy Carter seems about the most normal mix and did not make an issue about it as far as I recall, Carter was a European mix, which you would expect, English, Welsh, Irish, Scots with some German, French & Dutch.

If saying you great great granddaddy was from the old country is a huge vote winner, something is very wrong.

The original identity politics?

I just don't get how they can have such a strong connection to a country they would not qualify for a passport in.
I am a 1/4 Irish and have zero pull to the old country and would never appropriate Irish culture. I would feel so fake doing it, but Americans do it at the drop of a hat.

I might cheer for them at the rugby, but only after Scotland, England, Wales and the Lions.....and maybe Italy.
 
There's the common logical error right there, and with respect a foolishly divisive one: " and we Remainers completely failed to overturn or disregard the result despite a further three plus years of attritional and highly divisive politics and using every dirty trick in the book", and you foolishly attempt to put those words in my mouth and the mouths of every one of the 16 million British voters who voted remain. What dirty tricks do you think I and all those voters have been using?

As it happens I voted remain at the time, and would probably do so again if a time machine was to take me back to exactly the same situation in 2016. But now, when the decision has been taken, when new opportunities need to be seized by the UK and when the EU has moved in a particular direction no longer tempered by pragmatic British Influence? I would vote Leave (or stay out) were a new vote to be called now. I'm not being party political, that's just how I would personally vote, as would several family members and friends.

I'm sure you are not an idiot, but you are an idiot to keep fighting a battle already won, and continue insulting fellow citizens with whom you could be allies. Get over it, get over it, you won, there are clearly still problems and controversies and this doesn't mean I am likely to agree with you on everything which has happened since 2016 but on the basic question, get over it, time to move on.

Thanks though for making the point for me, FOC? thanks.

so, in a very tortured and back handed way you are agreeing that the leave side were right about the direction the EU was going and our inability to stop that from happening inside the EU

- you can see why it was so frustrating for us to have 4 years of organised resistance and aiding and abetting our opponents during the negotiations.

Obviously, the majority of remainers just shrugged their shoulders and moved on with their lives but many ostracised their family and friends, some leavers actually lost their jobs due to the way they voted and the organised media and mainly remain political class daily slandered the 17million calling us uneducated, thick racists and that we didn't know what we were voting for when, on a daily basis, we now find that it was those very same people who were actually clueless.

Hopefully the majority of people will now put all that aside and pull together to make the best of it but being Scottish, I have to suffer it all again because of the SNP using it as a threat/weapon but we also have the likes of Brown and Blair openly trying to get us to re-join so we all have to realise that there still are some very powerful and influential people publicly and behind the scenes still attempting/planning to get the UK/Scotland to rejoin DESPITE all of the project fear stuff not happening and the chaos/shambles within the EU political establishment
 
Its a bizarre thing, US Presidents claiming heritage to a country they know nothing of, Bush family, Irish, Clinton Irish, Regan Irish, Trump Scottish, Obama Somalian or something, Biden Irish, Jimmy Carter seems about the most normal mix and did not make an issue about it as far as I recall, Carter was a European mix, which you would expect, English, Welsh, Irish, Scots with some German, French & Dutch.

If saying you great great granddaddy was from the old country is a huge vote winner, something is very wrong.

hyphenated-Americans.

cracks me up when someone very obviously umpteen generation American announces themselves as - ‘Hi! I’m a 1/16th Native American, 1/16th Italian, 1/16th Dutch, 1/16th German, 1/16th Polish, 1/16th Irish American’

so you’re an American then?
 
hyphenated-Americans.

cracks me up when someone very obviously umpteen generation American announces themselves as - ‘Hi! I’m a 1/16th Native American, 1/16th Italian, 1/16th Dutch, 1/16th German, 1/16th Polish, 1/16th Irish American’

so you’re an American then?
I am 3% Norse so beat that....
 
hyphenated-Americans.

cracks me up when someone very obviously umpteen generation American announces themselves as - ‘Hi! I’m a 1/16th Native American, 1/16th Italian, 1/16th Dutch, 1/16th German, 1/16th Polish, 1/16th Irish American’

so you’re an American then?

 
I am 3% Norse so beat that....

Well, my 29th great-grandparents were Danish Vikings who invaded Ireland and stayed.

I guess if I was an Amurican, I would proudly announce I was Danish-Irish.....ok, 1 billionth Danish, but when you consider it seems even drinking a pint of Guinness in America makes you ‘Irish’
 
And who needs a FTA with the US anyway? We do just fine without one, and will continue to do so.
As I said from day one, trade agreements are the latest fads, nor are they Free in the actual meaning of the word. Anyone can import anything from anywhere, [provided] what it is , is legal, licenced where appropriate and pay the relevant duties. MFN is basically a means of allowing reductions or exemptions from duties. But if the man in the street were to do that the middlemen would make little profit and that would never do nor can he take advantage of the economies of Scale. If DFS can offer 69% discount then it was 69% too expensive in the first place. It probably is still 50% too expensive at the advertised cost.
 
Well, my 29th great-grandparents were Danish Vikings who invaded Ireland and stayed.

I guess if I was an Amurican, I would proudly announce I was Danish-Irish.....ok, 1 billionth Danish, but when you consider it seems even drinking a pint of Guinness in America makes you ‘Irish’
My 9th Great Grand Uncle was one of the Founding Fathers of New York.
 
As I said from day one, trade agreements are the latest fads, nor are they Free in the actual meaning of the word. Anyone can import anything from anywhere, [provided] what it is , is legal, licenced where appropriate and pay the relevant duties. MFN is basically a means of allowing reductions or exemptions from duties. But if the man in the street were to do that the middlemen would make little profit and that would never do nor can he take advantage of the economies of Scale. If DFS can offer 69% discount then it was 69% too expensive in the first place. It probably is still 50% too expensive at the advertised cost.

But DFS have been offering that discount for 30+ years, so I'm not seeing the analogy.
 
so, in a very tortured and back handed way you are agreeing that the leave side were right about the direction the EU was going and our inability to stop that from happening inside the EU

- you can see why it was so frustrating for us to have 4 years of organised resistance and aiding and abetting our opponents during the negotiations.

Obviously, the majority of remainers just shrugged their shoulders and moved on with their lives but many ostracised their family and friends, some leavers actually lost their jobs due to the way they voted and the organised media and mainly remain political class daily slandered the 17million calling us uneducated, thick racists and that we didn't know what we were voting for when, on a daily basis, we now find that it was those very same people who were actually clueless.

Hopefully the majority of people will now put all that aside and pull together to make the best of it but being Scottish, I have to suffer it all again because of the SNP using it as a threat/weapon but we also have the likes of Brown and Blair openly trying to get us to re-join so we all have to realise that there still are some very powerful and influential people publicly and behind the scenes still attempting/planning to get the UK/Scotland to rejoin DESPITE all of the project fear stuff not happening and the chaos/shambles within the EU political establishment
I agree with you on some of that.
 
Once upon a time; 55% of people in polling thought that Brexit was possibly a mistake and perhaps we should rejoin at a future date, it was that which gave hope to those desiring to overturn the referendum. That number has fallen to 43% and that is courtesy of the media, who gave the EU and its supporters free rein and created such a polar shift in public attitudes that it finished off the remain movement.

As for Ulster, I'm not sure parts of those communities fully understood how far the Beeb had successfully sold a united Ireland to the British People. IF Ulster is to remain part of the United Kingdom, its best long term chance was the mainland outside of the European Union. For the short term, the UK had little tactical choice but to sell out Ulster for awhile, that was reinforced when Trump lost his election.

On the EU; what we are seeing at the moment is an immature entity constantly trying to stay relevant by creating administrative/bureaucratic crisis to get attention and behind the scenes, the talk of ditching vetoes is a good example of the undemocratic forces within Brussels are preparing another big push before somebody else recognises how pointless the entire thing is to everyone, but France/Germany.
Off topic but I’m glad to see you now accept that Trump lost his election!
 
The battle may be won but the war continues. Large chunks of the Establishment were seriously embarrassed and given a very public lesson in the limits of their power. That's not something they've forgiven, they haven't made peace with the result and they are looking to get even - again, regardless of the wider cost to the country.

Look at the current support for the complete revision and distortion of this country's history, together with the associated angst, and Remain hardliners in the Media, the Arts and Academia are extremely well represented, not least because it's a chance to attack things that many Brexiteers value.

I have absolutely no quarrel with anyone who accepted the referendum outcome when it was known, which is just as well or I'd lose half my friends and be divorced, but I have no hesitation in condemning those who didn't and who used every underhand tactic in the book to try to get their way for the next three years.

These people haven't accepted the result and never will. They've simply been left with a de facto situation after exhausting their options. That's the reality and I'm not going to pretend that these hardliners have now seen the light and are potential allies or subscribe to the fiction that they were all good sports in the end; they haven't, they're not, they weren't and they bear watching because, if they can attempt to subvert a legitimate public choice once, they are certainly capable of doing it again and their behaviour displays a complete contempt for the democratic process.

If they now find it acceptable to stoke racial tensions and provoke a cultural civil war that's probably not surprising but it makes them doubly dangerous and they should be called out at every opportunity for being the creatures they undoubtedly are.
You probably know history never repeats itself exactly. But, under the hood the motives are common enough and for some remainers they're have a lost cause/betrayal myth that will always cloud their judgement and it makes them very dangerous people.

You make some interesting observations and one could argue the medias current love affair with ANY story will do, to damage the Government. Like the Times Story on the supposed Biden slap to the UK Government, the hoped for vote in parliament over foreign aid, or even the kneeling England Players being booed are all played in a way to try and divide.
 
These people haven't accepted the result and never will. They've simply been left with a de facto situation after exhausting their options. That's the reality and I'm not going to pretend that these hardliners have now seen the light and are potential allies or subscribe to the fiction that they were all good sports in the end; they haven't, they're not, they weren't and they bear watching because, if they can attempt to subvert a legitimate public choice once, they are certainly capable of doing it again and their behaviour displays a complete contempt for the democratic process.


So they are proper EUropeans then!
 
hyphenated-Americans.

cracks me up when someone very obviously umpteen generation American announces themselves as - ‘Hi! I’m a 1/16th Native American, 1/16th Italian, 1/16th Dutch, 1/16th German, 1/16th Polish, 1/16th Irish American’

so you’re an American then?

My nextdoor neighbour is a Septic; he grew up on a farm in Indiana, but his father's family were all hillbillies from West Virginia. He has described their origins as English and Scots-Irish, although his family name is Anglicised Norman French. On his mother's side, his American credentials are reinforced by the fact that his maternal grandmother was a full-blood Cherokee from Tennessee.
 

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