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What now for the EU ?

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
I don't know if you are a wind up merchant or just a dickwad.
Your comprehension is a bit suspect to say the least. If it were 4 euro to the pound, as you stupidly said, the euro would be 25p, not 60p you idiot.
Then , just yesterday, you were saying UK could devalue the pound (which it doesn't need to as the pound is devaluing it all by itself). but now you want to revalue it? Make your bloody mind up.

I've come to the conclusion you're a dickwad.,
Of course, if the euro went back to 60p then that would be about what it started at 20 years ago (ish).
Next year when the pound is worth 60 cents it will be a complete reversal.
nope you're just thick it seems and it has flown right over your head.

go back to your brasso grandad because the kids are enjoying themselves although I think you were right on the first quote me you have been at too much toilet duck this evening. go sleep it off.

or a remainer which is the same thing really.

ah yes I see sorry you are a remainer - so I'm sorry for your loss of dignity. we shall never see its like again.

meantime carry on being a dick of you must. and do try to keep up with oblique arguments there's a good chap.
 

Truxx

LE
I see BL is giving my question a good avoiding while demanding answers to his, must be a remainer thing.
I was loosely following the pin head polka wondering what to choose; groundswells of public opinion, the powers of the speaker, parliament wrestling back control or, my personal fave, the old tipping point? Spoilt for choice.

Eat yer heart out Meg.
 
I suppose if you'd bother to look it up instead of just guessing, you'd have found the EU Moroccan preferential export deal on tomatoes which means, no, there are no tariffs on a very large quota which they don't meet.
Bit like @PhotEx and his claims that lamb in UK is expensive because of the tariffs on New Zealand lamb when there isn't actually any as New Zealand has never met its tariff free quota.

Sorry, but those Moroccan tomatoes will still cost the same when UK leaves. Unless, of course, it goes to WTO tariffs in which case they will cost more.
I don't know what the situation with Moroccan tomatoes is, but in the case of New Zealand lamb, lamb exporters can't fill the quotas due to how the quota system is managed. There can be lamb processors who want to export lamb to the EU, but they can't export if they can't get quota assigned to them. There may be lamb processors who have quota, but don't have enough export facilities to make use of it. New Zealand can't change the quota system unilaterally to fix this.

This is a common problem with quota systems. Ability to use the quota depends heavily on factor such as market structure, initial quota allocation, and the quota reassignment mechanism, if there is one. It is very often impossible to fill a quota due not to anything to do with actual supply or demand, but rather due to how the quota system is structured and how this interacts with how the food market is structured in the EU (including things like market concentration of the big grocery chains).

I posted on this topic previously in one of the Brexit threads, together with a link to a New Zealand study on the lamb market under the quota system which explained this. I'm not sure where to find it at this point however.

To give you another example, the EU are complaining about EU cheese exports to Canada under CETA. The EU can't fill more than a fraction of their quota. They say the solution to this is for the EU to have a bigger quota.


I suspect though to understand Moroccan tomato exports to the EU and how the quota affects them, you would need to know a fair bit about the European tomato market and the quota system as it applies to Moroccan exports.

As a general rule though, it's apparently pretty common for it being impossible to fill quotas due to how the quota system is managed and how that interacts with the market structure, rather than anything to do with actual supply or demand.
 
Of course, because nobody's going to notice that we've spent twenty years on ops firing bullets that only make the enemy say "stop that, it tickles".

Funnily enough, when a bit of work was done to chase down all these tales, they all seem to be someone saying "I shot him five times at close range and he didn't even fall down" (from Mark Bowden's "Black Hawk Down", page 303 or so of the paperback edition, where a Delta soldier was using early M855 ball in a 10" or 12.5" carbine and wondering why bullets designed for a 20" barrel don't work well in something half that size).

Not one single story traced back to a real-world case of "I shot him and he laughed and ignored it or similar". (A few did go from "I hit him several times at 200 metres range and he ran away" to "I fired half-a-dozen snap shots at what turned out to be 400m range and he didn't stop running" (meaning, sorry, you missed) They may exist but when people were actively searching for them, nobody wanted to tell them.

Despite the best efforts of the team (one of whom was a RMR NCO with a PhD in terminal ballistics) who were quite interested in finding evidence that "5.56mm out of L85 isn't very effective" since they had their own thoughts on what "next calibre and rifle" should be, a real, evidenced incident was not to be found - though plenty of "targets will fall, scream and bleed when hit" were.

But how times change... back in the early 1970s there were efforts to prosecute the US for using the M16 and its 5.56mm ammunition, since it apparently caused such lethal, vicious, wounds that it violated the Hague Conventions and using it in combat was a war crime. Apparently it was "massively destructive", with "devastating wounding power" and "tremendous wounding and killing power" (Rich NM, Johnson EV, Dimond, FC Jr., "Wounding power of missiles used in the Republic of Vietnam", Journal of the American Medical Association 1967;199; Dimond FC Jr, Rich NM "M-16 rifle wounds in Vietnam". Journal of Trauma 1967;7)

It's almost as if people believe whatever they want to believe, evidence be damned...
Dude if it was up to me - the only good enemy is a dead enemy, whatever kills them the fastest and does the most amount of damage the better. If there was a 1mm round that could explode on impact and splatter an enemy into 1000 pieces, I would be happy using that. Also I said I preferred SLR as it can be shot left handed or right handed, SA80 can only be shot right handed. I know some left handed versions exist - but the Army never had these so all left handed shooters needed to change to right handed (which I was still good at BTW).
 
It was **** - I prefered the SLR as you could shoot it left handed and it was very accurate. I scored a 100% on a range day with that during basic training and was the best shot in my platoon - also if you shot someone with it, it would put them down.
I heard tales of people shooting Taliban with the 5.56 rounds and they didn't stop them unless you shot them 3-4 times. Maybe the Army was trying to save money on ammo or something as 7.62 rounds probably cost more, hence changing to the crappy 5.56 rounds.

I'll be happy to provide you with a field test.
Stand downrange at 400m and I'll shoot you with a single 5.56 rounded you can come show me the bee sting it leaves
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
Which explains why we are replacing the L85 with… an M16 variant.
When are the Army transitioning?

Oh, yeah, they aren't.

Shades of the General's protective detail back in 2005 - they had HK53s because they were 'better', except that experience said they weren't... Good enough but 'weapon firing, weapon stopped' was noticeably more frequent than with L85.
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
As a civilian with no military experience at all, I find it surprising that our Army is having to use small bullets.

Is it because small bullets cost less, or is there a military advantage to small bullets
 
I'll be happy to provide you with a field test.
Stand downrange at 400m and I'll shoot you with a single 5.56 rounded you can come show me the bee sting it leaves
I'm sure you probably would like that, however if I was going to get shot and I had a choice, I'd still rather be shot with 5.56 from 400m than a 7.62.
 
Bless




You don't have anything to defend you cretin.

31 Dec and French fishermen will be marching on the Elysee.......... Or something, but they wont be fishing in British territorial waters.

I so hope you are right , but expect a different outcome.
The French don't do this sort of thing in a sitting down way.
They blockade, barricade, burn.

I predict confrontation at sea, damage done, possibly lives lost.

Fishing Rights is the Big One.
 

Tyk

LE
I so hope you are right , but expect a different outcome.
The French don't do this sort of thing in a sitting down way.
They blockade, barricade, burn.

I predict confrontation at sea, damage done, possibly lives lost.

Fishing Rights is the Big One.

I think you're right. With the past history of French disobedience of the law to which the EU turned a pair of blind eyes I agree it's likely that there will be nasty clashes at sea between trawlers and the RN are going to be greatly stretched to respond.
Not like they have the number of destroyers and frigates that existed during the Icelandic Cod fracas.

From what I have seen it was only really the Brits that obeyed the letter as well as the intent of EU rules, I'm glad we've left, just the transition period and the trade deal to get sorted. I do hope that HMG can stick to their guns and tell the EU fishing is non negotiable full stop.
 
I predict confrontation at sea, damage done, possibly lives lost.

Fishing Rights is the Big One.

Reapers can / should wreak havoc on illegal fishing in UK territorial waters.

After 4 years of ARRSing about, illegal fishermen can hardly plead '' I didn't know ''

It will be a harsh, brutal lesson. but it will only take 1 lesson for the message to get rammed home.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
As a civilian with no military experience at all, I find it surprising that our Army is having to use small bullets.

Is it because small bullets cost less, or is there a military advantage to small bullets

You can carry more of them.
 
I don't think the railways do refrigerated high speed fish trains any more, which I presume would be required to ship it to EU markets.

And Network Rail would change a stupid cost anyway.

Wordsmith
The old fish trains used to run over night for Billingsgate early morning. Couple of refrigerated reefers on flats could sort the matter. There are other issues I grant but expense and connection are a problem since a lot of old track has been ripped up. Where I live the sidings are still there but we are not Harwich
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
As a civilian with no military experience at all, I find it surprising that our Army is having to use small bullets.

Is it because small bullets cost less, or is there a military advantage to small bullets

From my reading on this in the dim and distant, I think part of the reason is that, for a given weight, an infantryman can carry a significantly greater number of 5.56 rounds than they can 7.62.

Once you've run out of ammo for your rifle, you're no longer an effective infantryman.

Wordsmith
 
I have grouped these quotes together to highlite what I think could be a positive for the UK and British agriculture as a whole. We need to get back to locally sourced produce, farmed and sold in season.
If you think how Britain has changed it's eating habits in the last 30 years or so, we can change and we need to change.
@Grumblegrunt 's point about a ministry for food is a good one. We have thousands of acres of fertile land surrounded by a sea full of fish. It's about time we got back to paying and providing for our own use. I'm not saying we will be self sufficient, or that we shouldn't export and import foodstuffs from around the world, but letting the French nick all our fish and getting sudsidies to leave fields fallow has got to be looked at post Brexit.
Well they'd better be doing.....

We've survived (small family farm) by feeding our livestock rejected vegetables (Israeli carrots, in one case) and taking payment to provide habitat for our rapidly declining 'red listed' bird life...
Were lucky to farm some of the 3% of the UK's grade 1 ( edit, dunno what happened) and yet its totally unprofitable for us to produce food from our land,( we've got fields rented out fo spuds /cabbages/ carrots to three different growers).....not one of em has paid their rent ( two of em are 2 years behind) ...you certainly wouldn't think so looking from the outside in.. I pay my grazing rent up front, and owe nowt ( but I'm a peasant yokel) not a dynamic, fast moving , entrepreneurial agri businessman!
I check the country of origin when I buy stuff. I did wonder why the tomatoes came from Poland. Morocco I could understand. But Poland?? Thanks for the explanation.

(A few years ago I was in France and the lead item on the regional news was Breton farmers being up in arms because their cauliflower prices were being undercut by Polish imports. But then someting really bad happened and that took over the news).
Next door neighbour has just bought two (French) 3 yr old leek harvesters off t'interweb from Poland...
They were over €300k apiece new, and just replaced like for like with another 'EU deprived area status' grant...
The cost of the haulage was the most significant factor......
They've done f'all work, and he only wanted one, but the wagon was the same price so they chucked the other on anyway.......

Makes you think , Comrade.
 
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