What now for the EU ?

Depends on how you look at the numbers. I suspect that in a year or two's time when excess deaths are properly examined no european country will come out of the death scores much better or worse than its neighbours.
Time will tell but I don't think the UK has done any worse than anybody else to be honest
I suspect we have done worse but it's going to take a very long time to get a good picture. Excess deaths should be the measure.
As for not malice, I disagree.
The EU (including Merkel and Macron) actively sought to denigrate the effectiveness of the AZ vaccine in an effort to divert attention from their piss poor procurment program.
Consequently europeans are croaking it rather than take the AZ vaccine,
They're following the advice from their own specialists, it's policy in Germany that over 65's don't take it. As with Macron, it could change.
Consequence of malice? I'd say so.
Nah, it's the same kind of thing as I get from my German colleagues, different attitudes to some stuff.
 
I suspect we have done worse but it's going to take a very long time to get a good picture. Excess deaths should be the measure.

They're following the advice from their own specialists, it's policy in Germany that over 65's don't take it. As with Macron, it could change.

Nah, it's the same kind of thing as I get from my German colleagues, different attitudes to some stuff.


Excess deaths, agreed

Advice? politically motivated, the consequence of europeans not taking the AZ vaccine may have been unintended but it was predictable.

We probably wont agree on malice, but there is little doubt that the casting of doubt on the AZ vaccine was part of a face saving excersise. It has backfired and an awful lot of people are going to die as a direct consequence.
 
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So we were spraying a nerve agent!!!
In days gone by ICI used to keep regular contact with Porton Down, because a lot of pesticides were closely related to nerve agents and some stuff was unsuitable for the civvy market but would have been of interest to Porton Down. For that reason I never used fly spray, it does to flies what VX and GB do to us, and if you read the small print it is a bit disconcerting.
 
I'm not a fan of seeing the pandemic response through the Brexit prism but there has to be a point when we say "The EU has behaved spitefully and with malice towards the UK and it's own population."

It can't be ignored by whataboutery or Ostrich-Sand Interfaces.
How have they?
 
Excess deaths, agreed

Advice? politically motivated, the consequence of europeans not taking the AZ vaccine may have been unintended but it was predictable.
That's like saying our advice is politically motivated, there's certainly internal politics between No 10 and SAGE but in the end, your scientists give advice.
We probably wont agree on malice, but there is little doubt that the casting of dount on the AZ vaccine was part of a face saving excersise. It has backfired and an awful lot of peopel are going to die as a direct consequence.
The Germans still have the over 65 rule, they'll have that for what they see as good reasons.
 
How have they?
Oh, come on. We're broadly in agreement as regards Brexit but I'm open-minded enough to see the erratic and unforgiveable response by The Commission to the pandemic and the UKs response in particular.

Don't agree with Brexit - fine, but don't blinker yourself to the patently (and painfully) obvious.
 
Oh, come on. We're broadly in agreement as regards Brexit but I'm open-minded enough to see the erratic and unforgiveable response by The Commission to the pandemic and the UKs response in particular.

Don't agree with Brexit - fine, but don't blinker yourself to the patently (and painfully) obvious.
I've already said the von der Leyen fecked up, as I said at the time and on this thread. It was as petty and marginally worse than Boris and others threatening to do the same earlier. Which some on here thought all fine and good. I think she's a bad politician and will be the cause of more issues.

The rest of it? I think they still think we stitched them up on delivery but have stopped bleating publicly now. Their statements for domestic consumption as bad as ours. People forget that the other side cans see them as well. If we did stitch 'em up, I'm fine with it BTW.

No blinkers here.
 
They're following the advice from their own specialists, it's policy in Germany that over 65's don't take it. As with Macron, it could change.
It has changed, AZ is now deemed to be perfectly all right for all age groups, it just took a little time for the message to penetrate several inches of concrete around various skulls.
 
That's like saying our advice is politically motivated, there's certainly internal politics between No 10 and SAGE but in the end, your scientists give advice.

The Germans still have the over 65 rule, they'll have that for what they see as good reasons.

What, then, is the point of the EMA?

JB
 
The rest of it? I think they still think we stitched them up on delivery but have stopped bleating publicly now. Their statements for domestic consumption as bad as ours. People forget that the other side cans see them as well. If we did stitch 'em up, I'm fine with it BTW.

No blinkers here.

I don't think there was a deliberate stitch up by the UK
More that the UK acted first and acted decisevley. Boris spent big (like really. really big) on funding research and buying in advance of approval or even before the individual vaccines were known to work.

I think you are correct the the EU believes they were stitched up, but I believe thats paranoia born of ineptitude on their part.
 
That's like saying our advice is politically motivated, there's certainly internal politics between No 10 and SAGE but in the end, your scientists give advice.

The Germans still have the over 65 rule, they'll have that for what they see as good reasons.
They did that a few years ago with learning disabilities and certain religious groups
 
There was a report on german TV last week showing the scenes at israeli vaccination centres during the initial phase and the situation now. It started with lots of people getting vaccinated quickly and now empty lines. Apparently it's the younger people who are showing the most disinterest, for whatever reason.
At least they have the choice unlike the young in the EU
 

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