What is the future for webbing?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by kitmonkey2361, Jul 21, 2011.

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  1. As a STAB infantryman, I was recently told whilst seeking to exchange some trousers (so much for the diet and exercise) that there was little point because MTP was soon to be issued. I took this with a pinch of salt of course, because gear tends to get issued to the Girl Guides before it reaches us.

    Still, it did spark debate (thats like a fight, but all civil-like, and with words instead of fists) about what would happen with all the lovely PLCE rotting in our stores in the not-to-distant (though realistically for a STAB, very-distant) future.

    My question is this: When the new uniform and personal kit is finally issued on mass, will we still be using webbing, or will we be using armour with pouches attached as the case is now in theatre? Is the future of personal load carrying equipment something that the PECOC programme has addressed yet?

    Basically, will we be relying on belt kit for much longer?
     
  2. The question has been posed before on another thread Gear Spotter, the man seriously in the know hasn't been able to clarify yet.

    As you are no doubt aware Osprey 4 come complete with approximately 34 pouches of the 'Molle' type fixing in the loverly MTP flavour, that's if you get the whole package...I didn't I only got 2 x 5.56mm Pouches, 2x 9mm pouches a medical kit pouch and a utility pouch....but less for me to loose!

    There are stories going about that we will all be issued the cover for Osprey along with the pouches this will then do away with the need for belt kit, or and that's a big or, there are theories that a belt and yoke may get issued to use in conjunction with the Osprey pouches (my preferred option).....who knows.
     
  3. Options based on the latter are bring considered for personnel deploying on ops. Probably not before H17 if we're lucky
     
  4. GS something for you to have a look at no doubt your already on it i purchased a black hawk molle belt got some loops put on so i can either use the issued yoke and a crossed webbing strap yoke i got made to wear under osprey works well as long as you dont kick the arse out the pouches.
    Seemed very much the fashion on H13 but still a lot of ladswearing belt kit.
     
  5. I'd love to say I'd heard these things, but honestly we tend to be kept in the dark more than Joseph Fritzl's daughter/victim and children/grandchildren. I assumed that the osprey cover would become the gear, like how the Yanks operate these days.
     
  6. Osprey is going as part of the VIRTUS programme.

    I think the Osprey type approach would be best suited to give the individual the ability to taper their equipment to the task given. I think to improve this, they should issue a blast belt of sorts.
     
  7. Are we seeing a unplanned but fundamental change in our dismounted combat doctrine?

    My point being that cutting about in body armour for sustained periods implies operating from a FOB, or with SH / vehs in close support.

    I'm not saying that tabbing around with belt kit & bergens is the only way to fight, but if we are to retain that focus then the issued kit needs to reflect that. If not, then our doctrine & TTPs need to change to reflect what we think the generic role of what will effectively become an all-mech line infantry will be.

    This in itself could lead us down the road of an unhealthy emphasis on force protection, the consequences of which we used to mock when practiced by the US Army before 2005.

    I think we have become increasingly risk averse as a result of fighting unpopular wars. I don't think its a good thing - it stifles initiative, makes the infantry more expensive, and limits its operational effectiveness.
     
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  8. Osprey in the Jungle??? Somehow I think not, so what will all those gucci pouches hang off?
     
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  9. On was on Herrick 11/12 and did Op Moshtarak in the dismounted role on 2 x aviation raids. Im not one for loads of pouches on osprey, not my thing to be honest although it works for some people ! I wore an Arktis cop vest for the first 8 day Op. Found it to be ok for light loads only, but heavy loads ammo etc as a bitch, did not spread they weight well. On return to bastion, quick turn round, next op i went for a set of troopers belt kit. In my opinion belt kit is THE way forward for me ! As long as it fits well with the osprey and you dont cram to much shite into it, it works. Something like the Warrior Assault Systems belt kit sold by UK tactical would be a good investment for the individual and dare i say it even for the Army to procure ???!!! Maybe im wrong just wrong, but if you have any other ideas lets hear em ! see below im considering buying this for next op tour



    UK Tactical PLB Mk 1 Utility Combo
     
  10. There's been some good points made in this thread I'll share some of my views on this question. Remember there only my views and everyone's different which in my view means the next systems needs to cover as many choices as possible.

    To give you a better understanding of where I'm coming from here's a brief history of my kit and way of thinking over last 12 years and now though deploying now it has changed these choices.

    1997-2006

    Belt kit was King, daysack's were becoming the norm. ECBA was the only body drama. Tried assault vests a few times over this period, always ended up going back to belt kit. For me assault vests never sat right over ECBA. Chest rigs never suited me. Got my first tailored belt kit from JAYJAYS in 2004 and still have it to this day, I've had it improved and upgraded twice over its life.

    It goes a little like this. From left to right

    Double ammo (modded with Velcro closing), water bottle (modded with fastex buckle and bayonet loop LHS, Knife pouch RHS), utility(modded with fastex buckle and frag pouch on LHS), utility(modded with fastex buckle), water bottle(modded with fastex buckle), utility(modded with Velcro closing and frag pouch on LHS smoke pouch RHS) roll pin belt.

    All pouches were issued as IMHO they are the best quality pouches available full spot. All sewn on to a hippo pad.

    The thinking for this set-up is bullets and water. Only one pouch has kit in it the first utility and this is emergency rats and small first aid kit and a few other items if I was in the shit. The rest are for water or ammo. I didn't carry a RCK in my belt because if I only had belt kit I'd be in the shit and cleaning my rifle would be low on my list of thing to do. I DON'T BELIEVE IN LIVING OUT OF YOUR WEBBING I.E. EATING AND DRINKING AS IT NEEDS TO BE FULLY STOCKED IN CASE OF EMERGENCY NOT HALF EMPTY AND THATS WHAT YOUR DAYSACKS FOR.

    2006 HERRICK 4

    Ran belt kit with ECBA and P Helmet but I was running a US yoke the one with the ammo and frag pouches.

    I like many I ran ECBA over Osprey for the mob-ability over armour factor. I was unable to run my yoke under my Body Armour because of the pouches on it, first time I had seen this done. What this tour showed was ECBA was on the way out and that molle was a new and quick way to change set-up.

    A few FSA's IIRC ran the AFV ECBA covers which made me think that pouches integrated into your armour is the way forward. Also any yoke most be able to fit under body armour.

    2008 Herrick 9

    Tried everything belt kit, man bag, pouches on osprey, mole belt, drop legs etc.

    Finish up with mags,IFAK and admin pouch on osprey and pistol and grenades on molle belt. Man bags, are good for 2 things IMHO as car bags for THEM and gpmg gunners.

    Present

    Awaiting H15. Setup is Osprey with mags,admin,pistol and first aid and molle belt with under body armour yoke with grenades,dump mag,2 utility and multi tool pouches on it. Its a evo of last time.

    Which leads me to, I believe the next system should be osprey plus under armour yoke and molle belt. This will give everyone the broadest choice and let people run the osprey pouches without armour in the jungle. Molle is going to be around for a long time, so lets use it as the base for belt kit. The biggest question with the belt with be thickness 3 or 5 loops my a 3 loop kind of bloke. Plus a dump mag pouch.

    Rant Over

    @GS What camo are the osprey pouches, I know there MTP but here me out. MTP has the dots of DPM on a multicam base ok I know there's a bit more to it than that but to keep it simple for now. The pouches I've been issued don't have the dots they don't match well with the multicam pouches I have, has the army had there pants pulled down and been given multicamo by the makes? Because thats what it looks like to me. Plus to be fair the pouches a bit shit in design to even the warrior pouches (believe these to be minimum standard) I own and why no dump pouch?

    Feel free to take the piss.
     
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  11. Good advise on kit there. We as an Army need to move with the times when it comes to the kit we carry on exercise and make sure it reflects what we actually carry on ops. Recently I heard an LE Capt exclaiming how useful an uber small tin of polish was because it would fit in in his webbing! WTF! We need to get the duffers out of this Cold War mentality shit of you need to carry wash kit, boot kit and all the rest of that bollocks in your webbing. You are carrying enough essential kit on ops without lugging around shite like that.
     
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  12. When Herrick winds down there will be the most enormous bonfire of anything UOR, and anything else that costs money. I'd not be surprised if the Army simply reverts to DPM PLCE, and definitely no universal personal issue of armour of any kind - just the usual pool of 24x sweaty midget-size sets for range days...
     
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  13. Pararegtom

    Pararegtom LE Book Reviewer


    KM your new to this site, as I see by your posts, describing yourself as STAB, is naive TA fair one, Having Had 4 brothers who served in 10 V Para . We rely greatly on our Territorials in a big way, anyway back to thread you cant go to war with yer kit in Tesco poly bags even if your in the RLC . from us old gits who wore 44/58pat webbing , to the extreme space wear mataerials, a squaddie will always need his ammo, frag bag and bayonet. So yes webbing be it vest form or belt form will be us a while
     
  14. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

    well they keep burning perfectly good osprey at bastion by all accounts, the lads arent bothered because they keep issuing a full set every deployment.

    gone are the days when you you would spend ages scouring the surplus shops for waterbottle pouches.

    I did like the cold war webbing though, nice and neat for when you were dicked for a guard/patrol and only had time to pick your webbing and gat up. made you put some thought into it and you got used to the low down weight so a bergan wasnt as heavy or you didnt need a patrol pack.

    whats with that hang round your arse radio bag I keep seeing in newsreels - that does not look comfy
     
  15. Pararegtom

    Pararegtom LE Book Reviewer


    your 9sqn Para RE aint yer cos they are gungie