What is Leadership

Or he may sleep soundly in his bed as he truly believes he did the right thing.
Could be.
I don't know how his mind works, etc.
I'm pretty good at moving on from things. I have, up to now, done three things in my life which, despite not registering at the time, were wrong/unintentionally cruel. Sometimes, out of nowhere, the memory will just pop into my head and remind me that I effed up and am not the person I hoped I was. I'm sounding like a bloody woman's magazine but Sir Craig will know that he fell short. It will trouble him.
 
Could be.
I don't know how his mind works, etc.
I'm pretty good at moving on from things. I have, up to now, done three things in my life which, despite not registering at the time, were wrong/unintentionally cruel. Sometimes, out of nowhere, the memory will just pop into my head and remind me that I effed up and am not the person I hoped I was. I'm sounding like a bloody woman's magazine but Sir Craig will know that he fell short. It will trouble him.
Maybe or maybe not
 
No. He is retiring. He will not be able to live his actions down (whether right or wrong). His biggest critic - even if he convinces himself of the rational reasons for his actions - will be his conscience.
Thank you.

To anyone who may be wondering I am not trying to be a dick with the Mess Webley question. It is mentioned by some posters earlier in the thread and I believe was marking a departure from the rational.

I confess that I felt a surge of outrage on first reading of this incident but the variation in the descriptions of the circumstances worried me and I felt I should challenge it. If you want to award metaphorical white feathers, call for resignation whatever crack on I won't stop you but the thread rapidly heading towards twitter mob-dom and statements were being made that could not be supported by the facts as they have apparently been laid out here (IE we are a bunch of blokes on the internet not the Coroners Court).
 
Thank you.

To anyone who may be wondering I am not trying to be a dick with the Mess Webley question. It is mentioned by some posters earlier in the thread and I believe was marking a departure from the rational.

I confess that I felt a surge of outrage on first reading of this incident but the variation in the descriptions of the circumstances worried me and I felt I should challenge it. If you want to award metaphorical white feathers, call for resignation whatever crack on I won't stop you but the thread rapidly heading towards twitter mob-dom and statements were being made that could not be supported by the facts as they have apparently been laid out here (IE we are a bunch of blokes on the internet not the Coroners Court).
I am (with regret) going to spoil the consensus a bit. Sir Craig will I think reflect in the future about his conduct [I can't prove that of course] and the Twitter mob-dom will have played a part in causing him to reflect. If there hadn't been such a hostile response to his actions, I would not be convinced that he would let it bother him. I hope it would bother him, not because I want him to suffer but because I would like to think that, naturally, the events of that day would be thought provoking.
But no bullet.
 
I am (with regret) going to spoil the consensus a bit. Sir Craig will I think reflect in the future about his conduct [I can't prove that of course] and the Twitter mob-dom will have played a part in causing him to reflect. If there hadn't been such a hostile response to his actions, I would not be convinced that he would let it bother him. I hope it would bother him, not because I want him to suffer but because I would like to think that, naturally, the events of that day would be thought provoking.
But no bullet.
I'm not calling for a consensus so your spoiling nothing for me. No regret required.

Arrse can be outraged and express it but ought to be able to do it without descending into twitter mob-dom though. Being uniformly composed of harrumphing gammons we ought to be able to do that.
 
Much has been said on this site about Mackey's ability and competence as a senior strategic leader, almost as an excuse for his lack of basic police attributes. Perhaps it is time for the Government to review the qualities required for senior officers, If a future "leader" has chosen a career path that avoids any hands on policing or operational duties but is a wizard with a spreadsheet, these abilities should be recognised and yes they should be promoted where these abilities will be of use to the organisation but they must be precluded from any operational command and decision making in the future and to facilitate this they should be extracted from all aspects of operational policing including the wearing of a police uniform.

As Mackey clearly demonstrated he is not a police officer, so he should not be mistaken for one, accordingly he should not be entitled to wear the same uniform as those many brave men and women who do the job and protect the Queen's peace.
A spreadsheet guru is unlikely to be a leader at any level, certainly not a strategic leader. He’s quite likely it to be a manager either. Organisational or strategic leadership is not management, nor is it the same as team leadership.

The extent to which strategic leaders of organisations need to set an example is debatable and depends one’s stake. Rank and file followers will have a different view to the strategic leaders direct reports, who will have a different view to the organisations customers, ie citizens and government.

It isn’t simple or black and white and those that simplify it are only taking one viewpoint.

Here’s an academic paper on senior police leadership. It could be written about almost any large organisation and its leadership. Setting an example is but one of the attributes of a strategic leader.

https://www.interpol.int/content/do...M_Police leadership review (full version).pdf

Also read the wiki on strategic leadership to see how relatively unimportant setting an example is: Strategic leadership - Wikipedia

None of which means Mackey shouldn’t go. His position is untenable. The question is how do you improve strategic leadership in the police?
 
‘Driver! Run that ****** over. Now!’
I don't know why you think he's an idiot, that was one of the first SOPs I insisted on during the Iraq War. Even if you don't hit the person, they're likely to stop what they're doing and take evasive action. Besides, half the people who helped me topple Saddam were far more likely to hit someone with a vehicle than ever they were with a rifle.

If a senior officer isn't fully aware of the options available to his subordinates in the event of an attack, he has no right to be that ignorant. Further, if someone's tactical understanding is so remedial that they can't appreciate the offensive value of a large piece of metal travelling at speed and largely impervious to knife attack, I doubt they have much of a contribution to make to our inevitable victory in the War on Terror.
 
A spreadsheet guru is unlikely to be a leader at any level, certainly not a strategic leader. He’s quite likely it to be a manager either. Organisational or strategic leadership is not management, nor is it the same as team leadership.

The extent to which strategic leaders of organisations need to set an example is debatable and depends one’s stake. Rank and file followers will have a different view to the strategic leaders direct reports, who will have a different view to the organisations customers, ie citizens and government.

It isn’t simple or black and white and those that simplify it are only taking one viewpoint.

Here’s an academic paper on senior police leadership. It could be written about almost any large organisation and its leadership. Setting an example is but one of the attributes of a strategic leader.

https://www.interpol.int/content/download/21467/202399/version/1/file/AIPM_Police leadership review (full version).pdf

Also read the wiki on strategic leadership to see how relatively unimportant setting an example is: Strategic leadership - Wikipedia

None of which means Mackey shouldn’t go. His position is untenable. The question is how do you improve strategic leadership in the police?
Well whatever it is that improves strategic leadership in the police, someone had better find it soon, before there's no one left to be strategically led.
 
A spreadsheet guru is unlikely to be a leader at any level, certainly not a strategic leader. He’s quite likely it to be a manager either. Organisational or strategic leadership is not management, nor is it the same as team leadership.

The extent to which strategic leaders of organisations need to set an example is debatable and depends one’s stake. Rank and file followers will have a different view to the strategic leaders direct reports, who will have a different view to the organisations customers, ie citizens and government.

It isn’t simple or black and white and those that simplify it are only taking one viewpoint.

Here’s an academic paper on senior police leadership. It could be written about almost any large organisation and its leadership. Setting an example is but one of the attributes of a strategic leader.

https://www.interpol.int/content/download/21467/202399/version/1/file/AIPM_Police leadership review (full version).pdf

Also read the wiki on strategic leadership to see how relatively unimportant setting an example is: Strategic leadership - Wikipedia

None of which means Mackey shouldn’t go. His position is untenable. The question is how do you improve strategic leadership in the police?
Leadership is about getting people to do what you want them to do, ideally, in the way that you want them to do it, and that won't happen unless they trust either you or your ability to deliver, or both. People who have to deal with violence and the threat of death or serious injury as part of their day to day tend not to trust colleagues who run away and leave them to die.
 
Masood did, until he was confronted by the CP Officer, everyone else was running away even those who initially attempted to do something.

I am not defending or criticizing the man, but go give your head a shake if you think you would have done something better.
I have a reasonably solid idea that I'd spend at least 82 minutes wondering what was going on.
 
I am (with regret) going to spoil the consensus a bit. Sir Craig will I think reflect in the future about his conduct [I can't prove that of course] and the Twitter mob-dom will have played a part in causing him to reflect. If there hadn't been such a hostile response to his actions, I would not be convinced that he would let it bother him. I hope it would bother him, not because I want him to suffer but because I would like to think that, naturally, the events of that day would be thought provoking.
But no bullet.
Well put.
Leadership is about getting people to do what you want them to do, ideally, in the way that you want them to do it, and that won't happen unless they trust either you or your ability to deliver, or both. People who have to deal with violence and the threat of death or serious injury as part of their day to day tend not to trust colleagues who run away and leave them to die.
That’s a very simplistic view of leadership; functional leadership of small teams, very much in the Adair mould. It’s fine until you start leading organisations where the leader cannot know what individual members of the organisations do.

It’s also a leadership model that encourages transactional leadership. It doesn’t matter whether the leader operates by “do as I do” or “do as I say”; if the culture is transactional, I other words “do it right and you’ll be rewarded,, but do it wrong and you’ll be punished”, the leader’s ability to shape an organisation is limited. He or she has no chance of successfully driving change.

I think you need to read more widely than the standard military texts on leadership to understand how strategic leaders succeed and why people follow them. If Mackey and his ilk provided a compelling vision, put the people in place to deliver it, persuaded the wider stakeholders to support it, empowered their reportees and nurtured those beneath to develop it etc etc , there would be no need for example setting.

Strategic leadership is about far more than “getting people to do what you want them to do” and strategic leaders who take that approach universally fail.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
If Mackey and his ilk provided a compelling vision, put the people in place to deliver it, persuaded the wider stakeholders to support it, empowered their reportees and nurtured those beneath to develop it etc etc , there would be no need for example setting.
Again, I just don't think this is true. There's a massive logical leap that you're making here and I don't think you've explained why someone who was providing good strategic leadership would get away with a gross failure of tactical leadership/example setting.

I still hold that even if Bill Slim took the same course of action as Mackey we would be calling for his head. Good strategic leadership doesn't excuse you from example setting when you wear the uniform.
 
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I don't know why you think he's an idiot, that was one of the first SOPs I insisted on during the Iraq War. Even if you don't hit the person, they're likely to stop what they're doing and take evasive action. Besides, half the people who helped me topple Saddam were far more likely to hit someone with a vehicle than ever they were with a rifle.

If a senior officer isn't fully aware of the options available to his subordinates in the event of an attack, he has no right to be that ignorant. Further, if someone's tactical understanding is so remedial that they can't appreciate the offensive value of a large piece of metal travelling at speed and largely impervious to knife attack, I doubt they have much of a contribution to make to our inevitable victory in the War on Terror.
Was the opportunity to run Masood over without striking anyone else available (i.e. the friendly casualty)? Where was the car and where was Masood?
 
Again, I just don't think this is true. There's a massive logical leap that you're making here and I don't think you've explained why someone who was providing food strategic leadership would get away with a gross failure of tactical leadership/example setting.

I still hold that even if Bill Slim took the same course of action as Mackey we would be calling for his head. Good strategic leadership doesn't excuse you from example setting when you wear the uniform.
Webley or No?
 
His senior colleagues count.
The rank and file don't.
Wow.
Just wow.
I know this is ARRSE, but come on.

No one gives a shit about the average warranted constable; from the PM to the Home Secretary, from the Chief Constable/Commissioner down.

Anyone who thinks they do is smoking crack.

My mates are still chuntering on that he's a joke and should go.
 
I know this is ARRSE, but come on.

No one gives a shit about the average warranted constable; from the PM to the Home Secretary, from the Chief Constable/Commissioner down.

Anyone who thinks they do is smoking crack.

My mates are still chuntering on that he's a joke and should go.
I am acutely aware of that Boumer. 2.5 years left and counting. It was more a comment towards 21st of Foot......who is supposedly a leader......and has expressed at length his views on leadership at tactical and strategic level.......showing that the 'pleb' attitude is still very much alive.
 

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