What is Leadership

@ex_colonial what is your problem with the facts? It might be interesting to hear your contrary point of view.



It would appear to be your understanding of the facts. Mackey's own statement said he was WATCHING as Mahsood pursued pc Palmer BEFORE he was stabbed, during the attack which according to the guardian lasted 82 seconds and Mackey even said he thought it was about 90 seconds but felt much longer. His failure to do anything at all except lock his car doors is an indictment of his lack of action. His careful phrasing of his excuses where he claimed to have been told to stay in the car by an armed officer when that was after it was all over and Mahsood was dead is another weasel way of trying to excuse his lack of action.
I have never said the pc's death could have been stopped but even getting out shouting & trying to distract the killer might have just given a chance for it to have been averted or at least lessened.
Mackey was or should have been a constable first & foremost and as such it was his job/duty to protect life even at the risk of his own, that's what we pay him for.
Your continual defence of his actions make me wonder what sort of leader you are/were, thankfully I never met such lack of moral fibre in my time in the Colonial Police.
 
according to the guardian lasted 82 seconds
That is the time it took from his starting to mount the pavement on Westminster Bridge until he was shot his time in the yard was 22 seconds, Read the investigating officer's evidence rather than depending on misinterpreting what is published by the Guardian.
by an armed officer when that was after it was all over and Mahsood was dead is another weasel way of trying to excuse his lack of action.
Maybe, maybe not, but I have never defended his action or his words merely quoted the facts presented to the Coroner.
I have never said the pc's death could have been stopped but even getting out shouting & trying to distract the killer might have just given a chance for it to have been averted or at least lessened.
What were the other policemen doing? Two tried to do exactly that then retreated, while others simply kept out of danger Mackey simply wasn't in a position to do more than them.
Your continual defence of his actions make me wonder what sort of leader you are/were, thankfully I never met such lack of moral fibre in my time in the Colonial Police.
You clearly spent far too much time in the sun fantasizing about your heroic deeds. I do not defend the man or his actions, simply I don't get on the outrage bus because I wasn't there and do not know what I would have done or he might have done differently. I am the sort of leader who can tell the difference between facts and hysteria.
 
John I started my contributions to this thread by stating that this was more nuanced than the coward outrage bus is willing to consider. It would have been very easy to jump on the bus rather than apply some critical thinking.

I too could argue a strong argument that Mackey failed catastrophically both as a man and as a leader because he locked the car doors and left. But equally I can see that there is an arguable case that doing so was exactly the right thing for him to do; his immediate priority was to provide leadership at Board level and to the people of London.

I’d suggest that setting an example to the rest of the service who weren’t involved wasn’t and should have been a priority. The moral component argument is fatuous.

I think he had a range of responsibilities ranging from getting stuck in as a Constable, through provide “leadership” to those on the ground to getting clear to take strategic command.

Ones view of which is right probably depends on one’s own experiences. I tend to the view that your strategic leaders need to lead strategically and get out of the weeds.. It isn’t right or wrong.
Without arguing against your point of view, if it has merit, then mayhap he shouldn't wear the uniform of a policeman.

I think the wearing of a uniform requires the wearer to act the part.

I have of course, been known to be wrong on occasion.
 
22 seconds from reaching the gate to lying down shot, 22 seconds.

https://westminsterbridgeinquests.i...ploads/2018/09/WI-Day-1-10-September-2018.pdf

Page 134 Sworn evidence of DS John Crossley
Enough time for the perp to stab somebody, enough time for others to run towards and then away, enough time to assess the situation, draw a gun and shoot him dead, and enough time to sit in a car and decide to take one reasoned course of action rather than another. Enough time to not run the man over.

It's not even as if he flapped and dithered and did nothing, he assessed the situation and decided to protect himself and leave, knowing that a subordinate was injured.

Following his example would lead to anybody holding a knife having absolute power.
 
Following his example would lead to anybody holding a knife having absolute power.
Masood did, until he was confronted by the CP Officer, everyone else was running away even those who initially attempted to do something.

I am not defending or criticizing the man, but go give your head a shake if you think you would have done something better.
 
When losing the debate , start with the insults
That is just empty words, you haven't contributed so much as a comma but feel you can pass judgement on me? Firstly I am not losing any form of debate and I only insult those who simply are beneath contempt. Look at his response, I go for thirteen years old.
 
Everybody is going to have their own view on what they would like to think they would have done. In reality, faced with exactly the same circumstances none of us know the outcome, and with respect you don’t know what another person would do either.
That's my whole point and I have not suggested otherwise. We do however have a swarm of outraged armchair warriors who would had stripped to the waist and got down and dirty with Massoud. In their dreams at least.
 
His careful phrasing of his excuses where he claimed to have been told to stay in the car by an armed officer when that was after it was all over and Mahsood was dead is another weasel way of trying to excuse his lack of action.
That is the nub of the issue. A lot of people seem to believe that he was advised to stay in his car while attempting to leap to the officer's defence. The press reported the Commissioner's remarks but did not make the issue of timing explicit.
 

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