What is Leadership

I fail to see how anyone can expect a Met Police Commissioner (equivalent rank to Lieutenant General) to be physically capable of assisting without presenting an additional obstacle or victim for those who were trained, tasked and equipped to intervene. His presence could have been more likely to make the job of first responders more difficult and dangerous - factors that undoubtedly were taken into consideration in his assessment of the situation - and probably part of his training.
So, absolutely ******* zero "boots on the ground" mentality, from the pissweasel?

I hope this haunts the **** to the end of his miserable existence.
 
He retires in December. Probably weighed up the options of: 1. three months sitting on his own in the canteen, and 2. resigning and trying to find a commissionaire job far away. Either way, he's toast, so trying to keep the full pension. Haven't seen anything to say that the issue is being investigated by his force, though.
Probably "advised" to do so by someone who didn't want to explain why the high rank waste of space turned up full of holes.

Still a coward.
 
In the book "On Infantry" by English & Gudmundsson (Worth a read but hard to obtain) there is a story of a young (Prussian Army) Major who, on receiving a reprimand from Prince Frederick Charles, offered the excuse that he was only obeying orders. The Princes prompt retort was "His Majesty made you a Major because he believed you would know when not to obey orders."
The incident is also quoted in this: https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/reviews/fighting-the-somme.804/
 
Conversely, a Senior persisting at a site in defiance of SOP may cause paranoia in "the ranks".

"Why is he still here?"
Well, why the fook do we swamp an are a post-incident for reassurance then?

A long time ago, when Warren street tube was reopened after the 7/7 bombing, I was on a motley serial of CID put in uniform for a reassurance patrol (I was most chuffed I still fitted into my trousers, found at the bottom of a smelly kit bag). It ended up with BTP inside the station and Met standing just outside.

This persisted until our skipper got fed up and we just started doing a circuit of the block.

The net result was a concentration of hi-viz jackets that could probably have been seen from space.

A passer by asked me, "what's wrong mate?". I replied to the effect, "nothing boss, the underground station is open again and we're here to keep everyone safe".

"I think I'll walk" was the general effect I got.

And anyway, if a senior officer ever dared to tell me "I damned if I do, damned if I don't".....

NOW YOU KNOW HOW WE BLOODY FEEL!

;)
 
I’ve been wondering why more hasn’t been said about Mackey’s driver. I’m jumping to conclusions, but wouldn’t the Commissioner be driven round by a trained CP driver. Wouldn’t that driver be trained to get his or her principal clear of an incident. Wouldn’t that driver have comms with an appropriate ops room (Gold?) that would manage the principal’s extraction? Wouldn’t the principal effectively become a passenger?
My opinion.....as a CPO.....is that Mackey did not have prot with him that day. If he had, he wouldn't have just had a driver, but also a PPO and back up.
I know that the Commisioner does get protection, but that may be dependent on where he/she is going.
 
Don't know who is entitled to their own bodyguard now, but back when the Met was a force not a service the only ranks to have a staff car were Commanders and above. The vehicle in question was a black Austin Princess with a main set radio and a civilian driver. Commanders call signs were Area letter then 50. For some reason that must have lost in the transition to the modern service these exalted individuals were deemed to be police officers and would occasionally attend incidents accompanied by no one but their civilian driver. The Commissioner had a black Daimler with a personalised registration plate, cant remember the details but it was handed down vehicle to vehicle commissioner to commissioner . The commissioner alone had a pc as driver. I have no doubt that the modern day senior officer has been provided / provided themselves with perks and insulation from the real world that allows them to ignore the actual state of near anarchy on the streets
 
The decision to provide prot will be decided based on the threat assessment.
If the Commissioner was doing a high profile 'look at me being a bobby' walkabout in Hackney, they might get a team allocated.
A 500m vehicle move from one protected venue (NSY) to another protected venue (HoP) probably not.
 
In a better time he would have had enough honour to resign in shame.
In a better time he'd have got stuck in.... used the car jack or something
 
Personally, I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective; with a 'business/management/ theoretical' head on.

In fact this is visceral, animalistic gut decision stuff, where 'leadership' is of the alpha male variety and is either inherent or not.
No, I’m looking at it from a strategic versus team leadership perspective, not a leadership versus management perspective.

Strategic leaders lead big, complex organisations. Their core function is to provide and enable a vision for the organisation, provide the means to execute that vision and enunciate it in a way that is persuasive at evety level in the organisation.

Team leaders lead people. They do the Adair’s trinity of team, task and individual. Strategic leaders have to do this too, for the small team, usually the board, that they lead.

I think most people on here are trained and experienced at the team leadership level. As followers they expect strategic leaders to behave like team leaders. Somewhere around I’ve got an article by Stan McChrystal which discusses how important it is for strategic leaders to educate / persuade their followers about what they do.

IMHO strategic leadership across the public sector is pretty dire. It’s patchy across industry too, but not a vacuum. For me, institutional hierarchies are the worst. Those who get to the top rarely have any real vision of what they will do when they get there and when they do they end up getting immersed in political minutiae.

I think Mackey and his ilk fail desperately as strategic leaders. There is no vision, just excuses. If Mackey and the other very senior leaders provided clear strategic leadership, no one would expect them to step in at the tactical level. They’d know and expect him to get to his HQ quickly to provide strategic leadership.
 
No, I’m looking at it from a strategic versus team leadership perspective, not a leadership versus management perspective.

Strategic leaders lead big, complex organisations. Their core function is to provide and enable a vision for the organisation, provide the means to execute that vision and enunciate it in a way that is persuasive at evety level in the organisation.

Team leaders lead people. They do the Adair’s trinity of team, task and individual. Strategic leaders have to do this too, for the small team, usually the board, that they lead.

I think most people on here are trained and experienced at the team leadership level. As followers they expect strategic leaders to behave like team leaders. Somewhere around I’ve got an article by Stan McChrystal which discusses how important it is for strategic leaders to educate / persuade their followers about what they do.

IMHO strategic leadership across the public sector is pretty dire. It’s patchy across industry too, but not a vacuum. For me, institutional hierarchies are the worst. Those who get to the top rarely have any real vision of what they will do when they get there and when they do they end up getting immersed in political minutiae.

I think Mackey and his ilk fail desperately as strategic leaders. There is no vision, just excuses. If Mackey and the other very senior leaders provided clear strategic leadership, no one would expect them to step in at the tactical level. They’d know and expect him to get to his HQ quickly to provide strategic leadership.
Thank you. My last post was not a criticism by the way, rather a noting of your looking at this from a different perspective and my terminology was a generalisation rather than the specific which you now explain.

My thinking was that a stabbing in front of anybody lends itself to base, innate behaviour, rather than the thought-out procedural/ official/correct in retrospect response.

Thus correct behaviour may be thought of as cowardly and incorrect behaviour, heroic.
 
The decision to provide prot will be decided based on the threat assessment.
If the Commissioner was doing a high profile 'look at me being a bobby' walkabout in Hackney, they might get a team allocated.
A 500m vehicle move from one protected venue (NSY) to another protected venue (HoP) probably not.
In the mid 80s very senior officer from NSY visited Hackney Assistant of Deputy Commisioner I think, went out on the mean streets of Hackney accompanied by a home beat officer. When did senior officers become so precious that someone had to hold their hand when they go outside
 
Thank you. My last post was not a criticism by the way, rather a noting of your looking at this from a different perspective and my terminology was a generalisation rather than the specific which you now explain.

My thinking was that a stabbing in front of anybody lends itself to base, innate behaviour, rather than the thought-out procedural/ official/correct in retrospect response.

Thus correct behaviour may be thought of as cowardly and incorrect behaviour, heroic.
I didn’t think you were being critical. I pretty much agree, although I’m not sure there was actually an opportunity for Mackey to be a hero.

Your last line is perceptive. Perhaps he was damned whatever he did. If he’d stayed, whether as a hero or just a first aider the criticism would have occurred. But if there had been multiple attacks that day.....
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
If Mackey and the other very senior leaders provided clear strategic leadership, no one would expect them to step in at the tactical level.
Sure they would. If any of our star ranked officers was in that situation and locked themselves in a car we'd be calling for their heads. It doesn't matter if the man has the strategic leadership capability of Bill Slim, he remains a leader of an organisation that expects courage from its most junior staff and therefore the leaders should be showing some of that courage.


Somewhere around I’ve got an article by Stan McChrystal which discusses how important it is for strategic leaders to educate / persuade their
Is this the same Stan McChrystal who occasionally used to go on the lifters for strike ops with his blokes to make a point about him supporting them? He also made a significant show of his physical fitness. I'm sure he did seek to have his subordinates understand what he did, but he never forgot that strategic leadership still involves some leadership at a tactical level.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Twice on drugs jobs, one a Transit van in Blackfen Safeways-may have changed owners since, and another one in Holloway.
Second one was under the eyes of a Met police carrier-my one and only breathaliser test by an incredulous Sgt once the dust had settled.
So yes it does happen .
Top answer.

It's fascinating how the responses from stacker and 21st rely so often on how others are just internet hard men and wouldn't do anything in reality.

The idea that nobody on a military website had ever had to display courage seems like a strange position to take. I think it probably says quite a lot about their personal V&S.
 
You’re twisting my point. You don’t want senior officers sorting out issues that should be dealt with by people far more appropriate.
At the time there were no other officers available.
However I have been reminded that he had 2 civilians in the car with him and could have considered their safety more important.
 

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