And in stark contrast with Junior Minister (and ex AR) Tobias Elwood...
Just promoted to Lt Col.
And in stark contrast with Junior Minister (and ex AR) Tobias Elwood...
Yes, that's my only point.You'll have to humour me here. Are you concerned with me using language that implies that Police are anything other than civillians. If so, point taken, I will amend my post until it distinguishes between CIVPOL and the military and CIVPOL and CIVPOP. Otherwise I am unaware of CIVPOL casualties during the "bridge phase" of the incident, the first and only CIVPOL casualty being PC Palmer.
My issue was that the post I orginally reacted to seemed to suggest that Mackey could have done something for the CIVPOP casualties on the bridge. To me that was unproductive never mind unfair.
You would be defending no one, PC Palmer got two stab wounds, it is highly unlikely anyone could have saved him.
Just to clarify its alright when people are getting filled in, just to stand by and do **** all?
Soldiers are generally on duty during work time, let me assure you, most of them do not drive around with PPE or anything other than a car pass during heightened alert states.
I love the way you dismiss life changing injuries and occasional deaths as "a bit enthusiastic". I'd have thought the league of internet hardmen would piling in all over the country.
The attacker did something in a very short period of time, a bloke in his late 50s who probably hasnt walked the beat in years reacted incorrectly. I should imagine most people on here have never ever been in that situation.
Do you mean New NSY?I'm sure there are enough 'gold command' qualified staff available in NSY.
How long have you been here ?It is like you are being purposely obtuse?
Conjecture.
Or in English, guessing.
Do you mean New NSY?
Some of the responses here and elsewhere indicate that people of his status in the Police are not 'leaders', but merely senior administrators. In which case, his administration of his situation was faultless....not universally loved by the men and women he led.
Quite rightly, too.Ive been on foot patrol with the infantry in Afghanistan, I was Cpl, there was a SSgt and Acting DE Captain with me (All RLC). Although we didnt have any incidents the infantry NCOs were in charge.
Why was she walking around you balloonhead? If my CO is on the ranges he'll wear a helmet. If he isn't, he doesn't.So Cressida walking around London in her PPE is a mirage, why wasn't his in his vehicle or does he adhere to different standards. B H-H was not above arresting people and being our on the streets when he was Commissioner in his PPE, same as he did on Merseyside. So again why wasn't his PPE in the car oris he medically eempt from having it with him. He'd soon discipline a PC fo rnothaving it. At the end of the day he is a police officer.
Quite rightly, too.
If some of the internet hardmen were there, they doubtlessly would have taken over and save the day.
What is all this "internet hardman" stuff? While getting stuck in was an option for him - as you say, that may not have been the right choice for a bloke of his age and the circumstances he found himself thrust into with nothing more than a set of car keys to hand. On the other hand, he could have chosen to intervene, improvising whatever protection and/or weaponry he could with whatever he found at hand. His choice, and it's a matter of history now.
I still think it a reasonable expectation of the Met's 2IC to have at the very least, got himself to a place of relative safety, debussed and helped his lads out with policing the immediate aftermath.
"What can I do to help, lads?"
"Thanks for the offer Sir, we've got our hands full here. Looks like he's driven into pedestrians on the bridge. Would you mind taking that?"
"On it".
Agreed, in hindsight we know that PC Palmer was stabbed specifically in places his body armour wasn't protecting him and I believe he took catastrophic injury to the armpit and as I'm sure you're aware direct pressure without a clotting agent such as HemCom you would bleed out within a short period of time.
Point is he didn't know the extent of PC Palmers injuries. What if it was a wound that could of kept him alive for a few minutes with direct pressure for the first responders to get to the scene. He didn't know but left to save his skin.
You aren't clarifying anything. No, you were talking about squaddies fighting each other which they do. Yes, things can go wrong and people get seriously hurt and if it looked like it was getting out of hand then yes you should definitely try to de-escalate the situation. You are making a strawman though aren't you. They aren't the same at all.
If they are on duty where were they going in their cars? If it is home for lunch and the alert state is heightened then having some kit on them is prudent. I really can't see your argument, if your blokes don't carry kit useful in an incident teach them to. You are a leader after all.
Again, blokes fighting amongst each other after a few beers isn't the same as a terrorist attack. Yes, it is bad news if somebody gets more hurt than their pride but again this isn't the same is it? It is like you are being purposely obtuse?
I completely agree with you. Most people wouldn't have been in that position, that doesn't detract from his cowardly actions.
If he has now found that he is wanting and isn't fit for the role as a senior leader he should step down and return his Knighthood.
(I'm aware he is no longer the incumbent of that position)