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What is Leadership

#1
I see in a press report from the inquest / inquiry into the attack on the Houses of Parliament, which resulted in the murder of PC Palmer

This witness the acting MP Commissioner


The Telegraph has a news piece - behind the pay wall, but this is the gist of it


The acting Metropolitan Police commissioner locked himself in his car as he watched terrorist Khalid Masood kill one of his colleagues in Westminster because he had "no protective equipment and no radio,” he has told an inquest.
Sir Craig Mackey, now deputy commissioner of Scotland Yard, said that despite witnessing Masood “purposefully” lunge at everyone in his path with a butcher’s knife, he realised that had he got out of his vehicle, he would have been a target.
Instead, he remained in his black saloon car, within the Palace of Westminster, and witnessed Masood, 52, fatally stab Pc Keith Palmer.


What would you have done in the situation, does this show a detached view of leadership ? should the vehicle he travels in not have been equipped with a radio and some basic equipment !

Had it been me in a similar position I would have got out and tried to assist the PC


Archie
 
#2
It's hard to claim that it was a detached view of leadership when it happened nearby, this is not the same as watching a UAV or helicam feed - PC Palmer died within shouting range.

Personally I think his behaviour was despicable, detestable even. I couldn't stand still and do nothing even if it was a complete stranger being attacked. Our hero didn't need to physically intervene, simply attempting to distract the terrorist could have saved the PC's life. But then, how are we to know our own physical courage, if we've never been tested?

This waste of uniform needs to either fall on his sword, or be pensioned off.
 
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#3
I suspect that he's fully covered by a Health and Safety directive, so any calls for his resignation are on a losing horse.
 
#4
This isn't to do with leadership, this is to do with courage and the ability to react in a crisis. The bloke took the path of self preservation rather than doing the job he signed up to do. If he was a Soldier then he could be accused of cowardice in the face of teh enemy..
 
#5
I see in a press report from the inquest / inquiry into the attack on the Houses of Parliament, which resulted in the murder of PC Palmer

This witness the acting MP Commissioner

The Telegraph has a news piece - behind the pay wall, but this is the gist of it


The acting Metropolitan Police commissioner locked himself in his car as he watched terrorist Khalid Masood kill one of his colleagues in Westminster because he had "no protective equipment and no radio,” he has told an inquest.
Sir Craig Mackey, now deputy commissioner of Scotland Yard, said that despite witnessing Masood “purposefully” lunge at everyone in his path with a butcher’s knife, he realised that had he got out of his vehicle, he would have been a target.
Instead, he remained in his black saloon car, within the Palace of Westminster, and witnessed Masood, 52, fatally stab Pc Keith Palmer.


What would you have done in the situation, does this show a detached view of leadership ? should the vehicle he travels in not have been equipped with a radio and some basic equipment !

Had it been me in a similar position I would have got out and tried to assist the PC


Archie
I think if nothing else, the commissioner should be fired or reassigned to the records office or wherever it is they put useless individuals. HIs poor choice of words and subsequent failure to make up for locking himself in a car while his men were attacked is enough to damn him.

We should be mindful that condemning a person based on a legacy media report is unwise and unfair but it does not look good for this person.

Locking yourself in a car and allowing a single person to run around stabbing people when they could certainly be stopped by one or two determined meat eaters is the exact problem with this country. The risk-averse ¨stay in your homes, run away, just give them your wallet¨ social conditioning that we have all been exposed to is what gives these madmen license to run around doing whatever they want.
 
#6
Why not run the **** over?
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
While i am loath to judge anyone in such circumstances without having been there myself, i think i would find it very hard to respect a superior officer who did nothing to try and assist a fallen colleague. I like to think that at the least i would have shouted enough insults to get him to chase me, at which i would have made swastikas towards the nearest Armed Police!
Does the story mention at what point he got out of the car?
 
#8
As already said, he was in a vehicle very close to the loonie, why the hell did he not even attempt to run the barsteward over, it would at least have distracted the killer. I know easy to say being relaxed in my lay-z- boy, but come on he took the wages.

A posting as far away from front line policing as possible, how the hell he can turn up at work now is unbelievable in my eyes. Pass the white feather.
 
#9
While i am loath to judge anyone in such circumstances without having been there myself, i think i would find it very hard to respect a superior officer who did nothing to try and assist a fallen colleague. I like to think that at the least i would have shouted enough insults to get him to chase me, at which i would have made swastikas towards the nearest Armed Police!
Does the story mention at what point he got out of the car?
He’s still in there.
 
#10
As said above, how he can go to work and look his colleagues in the eye is beyond me. Then again, he's probably just a career driven political animal and couldn't give two shits what anyone thinks unless it will further his position. He'll be backed by the system and HSE, so on paper he did the right thing for himself - in the real world, he's a coward and a disgrace.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
I think if nothing else, the commissioner should be fired or reassigned to the records office or wherever it is they put useless individuals
Gold commander SO19?
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#12
This isn't to do with leadership, this is to do with courage and the ability to react in a crisis. The bloke took the path of self preservation rather than doing the job he signed up to do. If he was a Soldier then he could be accused of cowardice in the face of teh enemy..
In a better time he would have had enough honour to resign in shame.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Pass the white feather.
You can bet that if someone was to leave one on his desk oc CCTV, there would be a full investigation to find out who left it there
 
#14
Its odd, but when ever there was a punch up in the block, bar, mess etc there was only ever a select few of us ready to stop it. There seems to be masses of people on this thread ever ready to get stuck in though.
 
#15
Its odd, but when ever there was a punch up in the block, bar, mess etc there was only ever a select few of us ready to stop it. There seems to be masses of people on this thread ever ready to get stuck in though.
Stating the obvious (on my part) but isn't the issue that he is a police officer by choice and, at least in theory, joined knowing that when bad people were doing bad things he would be expected to intervene?
He's got the QPM. He has the award for 'devotion to duty' I think (not the one for gallantry) but his conduct during the attack was certainly questionable.
 
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ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
Its odd, but when ever there was a punch up in the block, bar, mess etc there was only ever a select few of us ready to stop it. There seems to be masses of people on this thread ever ready to get stuck in though.
No one is messing with Fijians and Dykes on millionaires weekend!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#17
Stating the obvious (on my part) but isn't the issue that he is a police officer by choice and, at least in theory, joined knowing that when bad people were doing bad things he would be expected to intervene?
I seem to recall an offence on the books being something along the lines of failing to assist an officer in need?
 
#18
No one is messing with Fijians and Dykes on millionaires weekend!
When I was regimental police, it was amazing the amount of ROO/ROS who were busy elsewhere when the Fijians were kicking off.
 
#19
Stating the obvious (on my part) but isn't the issue that he is a police officer by choice and, at least in theory, joined knowing that when bad people were doing bad things he would be expected to intervene?
You would think big brave soldiers would break up fights as well but that wasnt always the case

It appears that the commissioner wasn't the only one to not bravely do some cool kung fu and take on a bloke with a blade

Unarmed police officers ran for lives as Khalid Masood went on Westminster rampage, CCTV reveals

It also appears that PC Palmer himself tried to get away.
 
#20
You would think big brave soldiers would break up fights as well but that wasnt always the case

It appears that the commissioner wasn't the only one to not bravely do some cool kung fu and take on a bloke with a blade

Unarmed police officers ran for lives as Khalid Masood went on Westminster rampage, CCTV reveals

It also appears that PC Palmer himself tried to get away.
I don't want to turn this thread into a bun fight so I will just opine that, if you are in immediate danger and potentially outclassed (baton VS very angry knife man) running away might make sense. Seeing a comrade/colleague/passers by in trouble is another matter. It awakens (well, it ought) other instincts.
The senior officer's conduct can only be defended from a position of ruthless logic and by somehow waiving the idea that he is as responsible for helping a colleague as the next officer. However, if we apply a rule that says that there is no need to oppose a bad person's actions unless you have ppe and comms, a lot of people are not going to get help.
 

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