What is a "Graduateship in Engineering Management"?

Discussion in 'REME' started by biffchit, Jun 25, 2006.

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  1. I am being pestered to apply for a City & Guilds Award that I dont really know much about. I have had a gander on the C&G website but apart from the obvious (see below) I cant really find info that tells me how this award will work for me. Why should I part with another £80.00 for another certificate?

    If there is anyone out there who is up to speed with this stuff can you please take 5 mins to share your knowledge and explain this award, less the info I will "cut & paste" at the end of this. Cheers :)

    The info I could find was:


    City & Guilds Senior Awards

    Valuing achievement

    Many people in industry, commerce and the public services have made a significant or outstanding contribution in their field. They may not, however, have qualifications that recognise their achievement. City & Guilds' Senior Awards structure offers a progressive, employment-based route to higher level qualifications.

    What levels are there?

    Licentiateship (LCGI)

    At the level of Master Craftsman in Europe and towards the level of National Vocational Qualification (NVQ) Level 4. There are currently over 70 routes to the Licentiateship.

    Graduateship (GCGI)

    At the level of a British Honours degree.

    Membership (MCGI)

    At the level of a Master's degree.

    Fellowship (FCGI)

    The highest level of professional achievement.

    Holders of City & Guilds Senior Awards are entitled to use appropriate post nominal letters (LCGI, GCGI, MCGI, FCGI) and wear the approved formal dress of gown, hood and mortar board and attend the annual graduation ceremony.

    More on Graduateship (GCGI)

    The Graduateship is the perfect award for middle managers, comparable to a British Bachelor’s degree. As a Graduateship candidate you would have at least five years' managerial experience and will be able to prove specific managerial competencies such as:

    • working to improve performance and keeping abreast of advances in the professional field
    • implementing and maintaining systems correctly to monitor quantity, quality, cost and time
    • defining problems and recommending solutions to improve efficiency of operations
    • understanding the company’s mission and the social and economic implications of work undertaken
    • exercising responsibility for technical and managerial duties.
  2. I must admit I am quite glad that after 63 views and 6 hours later nobody has yet responded. For a moment there I thought I was an ignorant pig who should already know the answer. I suppose I will just have to be patient and wait for the "font of all knowledge" to login. Or until someone decides to take the piss :)
  3. Good question...

    I suppose it depends on how empty the line is after your name! I tend to think of acroynyms like this to be like "vanity publishing". If you are otherwise bereft of qualifications, this might help you get the job of a lifetime... and it might not!

    I know someone who has (almost) made a career of acquiring qualifications like this. It hasn't made much difference to him, other than make him happy, but it must have an adverse impact on his bank balance!

  4. Not the 'font of all knowledge', but whilst studying part time for an MSc in Engineering Management, I can offer something. Or, I can take the p1ss. Your call, but taking the p1ss is probably not all that helpful. As I understand it, you fill out a form to demonstrate competence, can't recall if there's an interview or not, part with £80, and they do the rest. The trouble is, all the HR bods in civvy strasse know this as well - that you can 'buy' the 'qualification'.

    Depending on how desperate you are to get an engineering management qualification, or to appease whoever's pestering you, I can recommend the Postgraduate Certificate in Engineering Management from The Engineering Management Partnership (EMP). This is an excellent course, nominally 2 yrs but can be done in 1 or 3, you don't need the degree to enrol (provided you can demonstrate appropriate experience etc etc) and gets you a proper postgrad certificate from the University of Bath School of Management. HR bods will like that. I assume your unit would refund the fees. Then, depending how hooked you get, options are to leave it at that, do an MSc, one of 3 MBAs or an EngD, all in Engineering Management and all taking longer and getting more expensive.

    PM me if you want to know more about the EMP course.
  5. You may find an award of this sort an advantage when applying for jobs in civi strasse, otherwise i see no reason to have them, except of course if you are a WO in REME when you are actively encouraged to have one now (as I understand it will be a must have for future REME Officers and WO)
  6. Treat it as a CV stocking filler!

    There is an added bonus if you are thinking of a job in the ETS. As I understand it, you need a degree to apply for the ETS, and this £80 "freebee" is classed as a level 6 (degree). Could save you 4 years (plus a lot more than £80) with the OU.

    But at the end of the day, it's a gamble. Is it worth risking £80 on a bit of paper that may or maynot come in handy in the future? Only you know if it's a risk worth taking. My own take on this (and it is only my opinion) is that I would rather have more on my CV when I leave than less.

    But then again, I started resettling at the 12 year point! 8)
  7. Would second this - it is a good course. Probably more useful outside the forces than in, but may be worth some thought for those with an eye on their future civilian careers.
  8. I've had a look at the C&G site, they do a Graduateship in Engineering Management too, for IEng holders. This costs 200 quid, no need for a CV or experince in rank either so Tiffs/Artisans with IEng could go for this.
    I'd suggest this would be a more appropriate award than a general 'Leadership & Management' award - I wonder if DEME(A) will negotiate to get this award a bit cheaper for us?

    My personal take, after an entire hours deliberation is - If an IEng just needs to send some money to get the award, why not make IEng equivalent to a degree and cut out the middle man?
    Maybe I'm cynical but I sense money and old rope swapping hands here....
  9. :D Mate, that's unlike you! Cynicism and Nige. That’s like Fun and Run, or Army and Intelligence. Should never be used in the same sentence 8)
  10. Not true. AGC(ETS) require a 360 Credit Accumulation and Transfer Scheme (CAT) point degree, in other words a proper honours degree. The GCGI is a vocational qualification at honours level (on the QCA matrix) but it is not worth any CAT points! It is worth getting through the REME Arms School as certified proof of your level of experience in Engineering Management; but that is all it is good for. If you apply for the GCGI through an Army Education Centre you will get a standard Leadership one, not the Engineering Management one that is open to Artificers and IEng accredited personnel.
  11. Fair play :roll:

    As I mentioned, it was only as I understood it. The very brief toe dipping that I did, got as for as establishing that the requirement for the ETS was a degree (as you say level six on the matrix) and receiving a letter of confirmation from the CG that the award was a level six equivalent on the same matrix. At that point I found another 354 reasons not to apply for a commission :wink:

    But thanks for clearing that up.
  12. Off at a slight tangent to the enginnering management side but I remember an argument raging between the universities, the C+G and several Industrial and scientific Institutes' regarding graduateships being touted as being equivalent to a Bachelors Honors degree. The last 'agreement' I heard was that many industries would only accept graduateships as being equivalent to a Bachelors 'pass' degree (ie. no Hons).....
  13. The graduateship is a recognition award that is given to those who have a demonstrated level of ability and experience but do not necessarily have the academic knowledge and training required for a BA(Hons). Like most awards of this type, some employers rate it others don't.
    From personal experience I can assure you that it can make a difference when you apply for a job (and you also own the IEng accreditation).

    £80 is a one off payment, there are no annual fees. There are also licentiateships in Road Transport Engineering etc available via SOE and the like.

    You either pay the money or you don't; it's up to you, although if you're staying in it won't make any real difference if you have it.

    As for the expense of an OU degree; you reap what you sow.
  14. I couldn't agree more. (Bit of a thread hijack :twisted: ). I think every penny spent on the OU so far is worth more to me than any of the engineering freebies and memberships, (which I’ve collected over the years) as I don't want a job in engineering when I leave. Also, the MOD has paid £200 sponsorship per summer school, and it isn't classed as leave, but a duty. :wink:

    However, I think (and hope) my degree with the OU, coupled with my IEng status and any other freebie will at least get me the interviews. The rest, as they say, will be up to me!

    If you see me yelling "Big Issue" in a few years time, you know I'm talking more boll0x than usual. :x
  15. Bite the bullet, claim back 80% from standard learning credits and file the award away in your PDR. How much easier or cheaper could it be? A professional qual for £16. Do it!