What if?

#1
After the second bomb (and last one they had), the Japanese had said Fruk You to the Allies?

The Japanese didn't know that the US only had two ready weapons but they might have; as the Japanese were still not at war with the Soviets (through whom diplomatic channels were open to the West) the fact that the Soviets knew about the Manhattan Project they might have let the Japanese know that little snippet.

It would have taken the US months to build more Atomic weapons.

Would they have waited until they were ready? Or have carried-on with an assault on the Japanese Home Islands?
 
#3
Thanks but my point isn't "what was the plan" but would they have suspended the plan and waited for more bombs.

Secondly but not stated directly, why didn't the Soviets inform Japan (as it would have been in their interest to do so)?
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
I am pretty sure at that point the russians were at war with the japanese, and were in the process of invading manchuria or somewhere like that...
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#5
chrisg46 said:
I am pretty sure at that point the russians were at war with the japanese, and were in the process of invading manchuria or somewhere like that...
That's my understanding, literally a few days before Hiroshima.

As to "would they have suspended the invasion to await more nukes?" no. I had an uncle who was waiting in India to board a boat and head off to start the invasion the day Nagasaki got lit up.

This picture intrigues me:

http://home.nps.gov/pwr/customcf/apps/ww2ip/dsp_event_detail.cfm?event_id=19

shows a picture taken in Nagasaki literally seconds after the detonation and before the sound wave reached the subjects who ought otherwise to be either looking at the cloud or running away.
 
#6
They didnt need more nukes, the casualties from the fire bombing that had started in April had made it clear to the Japanese government that they had no chance, the Americans were destroying there cities with quite heavy aircraft losses, but when they realised that one bomber could take out a city it broke there resolve. The americans had no idea what the affect of the first nuke would be on a city, and were almost as shocked as the Japs when they saw what they had done. Saying that they only used the Nukes to prevent cassualties was an excuse that only came up after they realised just how many people they had killed. I fact the "Big Six" fire bombing raids killed a lot more people.58% of Tokyo was completly destroyed and made Dresden look like a childrens bonfire
 
#8
Cpl_Clot said:
tropper66 said:
but when they realised that one bomber could take out a city it broke there resolve.
My question includes the 'what if' it didn't break their resolve?
The USAAC/AF would have bombed them back into the stone age before one the first marine stepped ashore
 
#9
chrisg46 said:
I am pretty sure at that point the russians were at war with the japanese, and were in the process of invading manchuria or somewhere like that...
The first bomb was dropped on 6th of August. The second on 9th August.

The Soviet declaration of war was made on the 8th August with effect from 9th August.
 
#10
As Max Hastings says in his book Nemesis, the Russians wanted to do a land grab in the Far East anyway and launched the invasion of Manchuria early in case the Japanese pre-empted them by surrendering. Also, the Japanese were well aware that the Americans didn't have to invade - with the American fleet blockading Japan, the populace were slowly starving to death and the USAAF was destroying anything that was left.
 
#11
I read somewhere there was an agreement between the western allies and the Russians hammered out at Yalta, that in return for the second front the Russians would declare war on Japan 3 months after the Germans had been defeated, which, for the Russians was 9 May. They also had an interest in being involved in the defeat of Japan as it gave them the opportunity to grab Sakhalin Island from the Japs.
 
#12
I believe a day or two after the Nagasaki raid there was a thousand bomber raid over Japan, however not a single bomb was dropped.
The idea being a show of force i.e. everyone of these B29's has one of these bombs, Tojo was mae aware of this.

A gamble (as war always is and Japan blinked and lost it's botte).

BTW Japn had been pretty much flattened and starved by Incedary raids and a near perfect naval blocade, it (A_Bombs) was just the radioactive cherry on the cake so to speak.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Very good programme on Discovery about this the other night

One of the reasons Hiroshima and Nagasaki were choosen for the first bombs were because they were undamaged and hadn't been firebombed

IIRC it stated that The Russians had been moving men and equipment down to the borders with Japan so they could pre empt any surrender and get as much land as possible before the Allies occupied it

Edited to add

I also think the way the Japanese were viewed was slightly different than say the air war and bombing campaign in Europe

I don't think anyone would have had any moral qualms about bombing them back to the stone age

In fact one of the interviees stated they had to get Curtis Le May to hold back so they could have a list of undamaged cities to bomb
 
#14
Big six bombing stats
 

Attachments

#16
tropper66 said:
tropper66 said:
Big six bombing stats
and the other raids
Sorry it came out a bit small but you will get the jist of just how much damage was done to the main cities of Japan, The BDAs were made in % of the destruction
 
#17
I read somewhere that every Purple Heart awarded since 1945 has been drawn from the stock the US had made for their anticipated conventional attack on Japan. I don't know how many that is, but it gives an idea of how many cas. were expected (could be BS though)
 
#18
Cpl_Clot said:
Thanks but my point isn't "what was the plan" but would they have suspended the plan and waited for more bombs.

Secondly but not stated directly, why didn't the Soviets inform Japan (as it would have been in their interest to do so)?
Much of what I have seen and read over the years indicate the droping of the bombs was also a demonstration of their power to the Soviets, and a warning. Stalin was aware of the Manhatten project, but not the limited number of weapons available. If some comemtaters are to be belived a "live" target in Japan was the perfect demonstration, to a potential enamy. The message being, "we have it, we are prepaired to use it"
 
#19
Cpl_Clot said:
tropper66 said:
but when they realised that one bomber could take out a city it broke there resolve.
My question includes the 'what if' it didn't break their resolve?
Simple. In the end Britain would have had to resort to banning all Japanese from sightseeing in London. They would have collapsed immediately.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#20
Fallschirmjager said:
Cpl_Clot said:
tropper66 said:
but when they realised that one bomber could take out a city it broke there resolve.
My question includes the 'what if' it didn't break their resolve?
Simple. In the end Britain would have had to resort to banning all Japanese from sightseeing in London. They would have collapsed immediately.
They are not site-seeing they are on long range recce patrols. :soldier:
 

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