What if Britain was Georgaphically in America?

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by PandaLOVE, Aug 13, 2008.

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  1. I have been wondering. Great Britain lead the world through the Industrial Revolution and formed the modern world. How truely great would we be today if we had the same resources, land mass, military capability and population as the US? How different would the world be today?
  2. Too many variables to judge. Arguably the same as the US today and geopolitics would have decided industrial advancement based on war, war being the mother of invention. For a good alternative history readThe Two Georges the basic premise of which is that as peace was signed before the American Revolution there was a new era of peace in which the US/UK were the global superpower throughout the nineteenth century ensuring no world wars in the twentieth and everyone driving steam powered cars into the 1960's.
  3. Well when you stop to think at the empire we once had, I reckon that comparison wise we would all be overun with Mexicans claiming benefits and most of the population would have emigrated to Canada.

    Oh and by the way Americans were also British, they too had a titfull of this country and left on the Mayflower.
  4. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    :D For one thing, MacDonald's wouldn't exist and that would be a gooooood thing.

    Seriously though, I'm not sure how to make comment on this. The two cultures are very different and the geographical placement of the the UK and US have a lot to do with where they both stand now.

    If we had the US resources in WW1 or 2 - would there have even been conflict with GE? I doubt it.

    Would there have been another conflict instead? Probably

    Would the Empire have had the administration with US resource rather than that it did receive from a manpower short UK? I doubt it. We would have used our far greater resources to dominate and that I think would have been the greatest international change. Not for the better either I think.

    Would the class society of the pre WW1 UK society survive? Probably.

    Much to think about.

    A good question, Panda
  5. Assuming that these British people were indiginous to the USA land mass, and were endowed with character traits that have actually resulted in part from contact with Europeans (but which wouldn't have been possible in the scenario), a few things would have happened differently.

    Columbus would have had a long swim home.

    South and Middle America would be coloured pink on the globe. Falklands '82 wouldn't have happened.

    We wouldn't have been involved in the Eurasian wars of 1914-1919 or 1939-1945. Instead we would have been busy invading the colonies of the participants.

    Hurricane Katrina would have been told to f*ck off.

    There'd be a 2500 mile fishing limit around the coast.

    Ascension Island would have guns. Big ones.

    The coffee plantations would be growing tea.

    The lack of communication with the rest of the world would mean that we would have kept all the secrets of the great inventions, leaving everybody else as Third World countries, with no Second World in between.
  6. Slightly OT, but I remember watching a TV drama where England was placed somewhere in Russia during the Napoleonic Wars some years ago. It was an interesting scenario too.

    Anyone else remember it?
  7. Not quite so sure on that one...

    We would have turned up five minutes early, with the result that the Germans (Running to time) would have been thoroughly spanked.
  8. Except that we would have had no reason to get involved. We wouldn't have had a pact with Poland. From our point of view, trading with a single entity (the winner) would have been preferable. The outcome would have been predictable as Germany would have been the only participant with advanced military technology.

    The Germans may not have felt the need for developing the Atom bomb with the haste that they really did - after all, the Blitzkrieg would have been over by Xmas 1941, while we would have been developing it and rocket delivery with a view to the future.

    By 1943, the shutters would have gone up. Germany would have all of the assets of Europe, Japan would have most of Asia. UK (USA-based) with 3000+ miles of ocean as defence, would adopt an isolationalist policy, venturing out only to protect its major overseas asset, Africa (covertly obtained in the period 1939-1941). Eventualy, even Africa would be given up to Germany, probably in exchange for porn and flash cars.
  9. We are already - speak to the man married to the tragic 'north and south' and the other who can't deliver a sound 'saucepan lid.'
  10. Britians problem always has been that it does not have the population and Natural resources to match it's ambitions.
    Germany had a large population but few resources for its industry.
    Britians strength was it could draw on it's massive overseas Empire for coolies to do the fighting.
    Now its all long gone and so should any British ideas on being a world Power.
  11. Britian's luck was to come out the Napoleonic wars with the Largest Navy and Merchant Navy in the world, coupled with Naval Officers not afraid to kick snot out of anyone who got in their way or attacked shipping. By the end of WWII that era was well and truly at an end. Should by some freak of nature the UK end up with a similar sized navy and merchant navy today (over 600 warships alone) we'd not give a damm for someone's pretences on Land. Not one single enemy of the UK who lost control of the sea has EVER beaten us.

    Under some of the more violent 19th Century Naval Commanders every single Iranian port would have been pounded by Naval Gunfire for daring to interfere with Royal Navy Operations.
  12. Oh Yes always believed in a strong Navy but we are still left with an army that is and always was to small to fight everywhere at once.
    In WW I German policy was to 'Stretch' the Brits in the Empire. She could in reality do nothing about the navy, but forced Britain to spend troops overseas.
  13. If we had been geographically where the US is today there might possibly have been different invaders from overseas. We may not have entirely repelled them but due to our land mass and larger armies we might have maintained our own rule.

    There would probably have been more powerful and ruthless war mongering land rulers lording it up over larger areas, capturing larger armies to overthrow one other. I doubt if our Royal Family would be what it is today as nor would our Government. And what about export trade, engineering and our spreading of Christianity?

    I wonder if the Industrial Revolution might have come much sooner and the start of the 20th century have seen more advancement?

    We are the greatest country on earth, with the same US resourses from year 1 we would be the major super power today IMHO.
  14. Actually, you were in North America and after the war we call the French and Indian War and you call the Seven Years War (1754-1763, why do you call it that, Brits can't count?) you controlled Upper Canada, Quebec and the 13 North American colonies. For good or ill, you lost control of the 13 colonies. Part of the problem might have been that after the defeat of the French at the Plains of Abraham the Catholic French were no longer a threat to the Protestant colonists in Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and New York that bordered Quebec. This empowered the colonists to revolt. Part of why "Brave Wolfe" was such a hero in N.E. colonies.

    If Britain had considered making the colonies an equivilant to the French départements d’outre-mer, given the seats in Commons, named a few North Americans to the peerage etc you might have held on to the colonies.

    Don't feel to badly about this. Your monarch is still the Queen of the largest country in North America.
  15. Ah yes, 'The Seven Years War', so called because we could only be ARRSED to contest it for seven years - up to the others if they wanted to start without us? And in that, we beat the French and the natives. Why, because it's what we do? :wink:

    After one of the finest Combined Operations ever at Quebec city, the French plutocrats and merchants naffed off back to France, leaving those who couldn't afford to go back, those who were afraid to go back, those who preferred to live under Britain rather than France, those who actually liked it there, and clergy with a social conscience. And then the 'Hollywood/Gibson' evil British were actually extremely fair to the French who were allowed to keep their traditions, language etc, and who found it generally much better than when under the French.

    So much so that when the colonial insurrection army marched north, and reached Quebec city after overwhelming various minor garrisons and outposts in their path, the French rejected the invitation to join the rebels and fight the British, electing to fight with the British and defend their land. As it happens the local natives also chose this path, adding that the natives fighting with the rebels also happened to be a bunch of mongs they traditionally poggered.

    But, the fledgling Uncle Spams had a grossly inflated perception of their capabilities, and/or a grossly inaccurate evaluation of British regulars under competent command - whom they now faced as opposed to mercenaries, and, without French naval support. So they attacked and found the exercise too costly and withdrew south - well, that's the PC version for the Septic textbooks. In reality they had seven shades for sh1te belted out of them and ran so fast and so far they didn't stop till they were back home sucking on apple pie - what was left of them that is. One thing in their favour, they at least had enough intelligence not to try it again. 8O

    If Britain had evolved in N. America, I can't see the Romans could have been ARRSED to sail the Atlantic, so we would have missed out on nearly 400 years of being Roman and all the two-way exchanges that took place and moved us forward. The Norse and Celt influence would have been negligible and European influence non existent. Much of Europe would be under France and we in 'America' would probably have been colonised by the Dutch, who bought their way in with a bag of glass beads and a bottle of Advocaat. Queen Boadicea would probably have placated the Dutch by devising the 'tart-in-the-wigwam' culture, in the avenue of Two Dogs Fcuking. :roll:

    Personally, I think the Atlantic is the best moat we could have. :wink: