What has the private sector ever done for us?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by skid2, Nov 30, 2011.

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  1. skid2

    skid2 LE Book Reviewer

    Ok. God knows I've tried and I have read everything on here. But I have to ask, given some of the vitriol expressed here on the public sector. What has the private sector ever done for us?

    And lets not embarress ourselves by mentioning the fine work carried out by our unregulated financial sector.
  2. It makes beer, which makes it akin to a deity as far as I'm concerned.
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  3. Wordsmith

    Wordsmith LE Book Reviewer

    Pays for the public sector - which generates no wealth of its own...

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  4. Thread ends.

    Sent from my Desire HD
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  5. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

    your having a laugh. The private sector creates wealth whilst the public sector spends it. As for unregulated financial sector which country are you living in? The UK has one of the strictest regulatory regimes in Europe, the fact things went tits up is not due to lack of regulation its due to the FSA not paying attention to the major players because after all big companies don't do bad things do they. The FSA and previously PIA and Lautro focused heavily on those providing retail advice to clients because that's where the danger is isn't it?

    Over two decades of increasing regulation on the retail side culminating in the current RDR and minimal observation, control and reporting on the major players such as High street banks who suddenly think they can use customer money to invest in highly complex instruments when in reality they don't know their OEICS from their Investment trusts (let alone anything more technical) led to this situation where retail bankers practically brought the country to its knees. This is why there should be a Chinese wall between retail and investment arms of any bank. Oh and by the way the FSA is a government body with a very nice pension scheme thank you! So I guess they don't fall into the private sector do they!

    edit : there,their and they're I really should be more attentive!
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  7. TheIronDuke

    TheIronDuke LE Book Reviewer

    We're a bit like King Midas dear boy. Only much more powerful. Everything you gaze upon, everything you touch, is our gift to you. The countryside you pass through in your Kappa shell suit, the bus that carries you, the shit caked frillies bunched up the spotty crack of your great bloated lass, the junk food that made her bloated, the stupid ****ing Chat magazines she reads for an insight into rich and interesting peoples lives, the fags and beer she swills to try and blot out the fact that she married a deadbeat like you, the pittance we pay you to do the jobs we cant be arsed to do and the pointless tragic shite you spend your pittance upon - for all these gifts and more, you may thank us.

    Now. Go to bed. Tomorrow is a school day and we are no longer amused by you parading about the place wailing and gnashing your teeth because we nicked your ****ing pension.
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  8. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

    The thing is Skid2 the pensions not been nicked has it. Yes Non funded Final Salary schemes are going to cost more to run but its not because of poor investment returns in high risk areas because there is no investment. let me give you an example the NHS Pension schemes either one of them, I've picked them because I know them inside and out and also the old scheme is the largest pension scheme in the UK.

    Both the old and the new are non funded schemes so lets just for ease refer to It rather than Them.

    For every year you pay into it you get a fraction of your final salary, the most you can contribute is normally 40 years (there are exceptions) so you get 40/80 X Final Salary dead easy right? So whilst your working in the NHS your building up your pension rights and your paying your contribution each month on the 28th of the month. Only your contributions don't actually go into your Pension. I can tell you right now down to the last penny the value of the NHS pension pot £0.00 Nil nowt nought nothing not a bean. The money that members paid in on Monday this week has already been paid out to those people currently drawing pensions. And this is where the glitch is. There are more people drawing NHS pension right now than there are people paying into it and because of the demographics of the Uk most non funded final salary scheme are in a similar situation.

    So each month your paying between 6% and 8.5% ( dependent on salary)of your gross into your pension scheme the HMRC also gives the NHS some as Tax Relief and the NHS has to find the shortfall. Currently approx 16% of salary for each current member, as the demographic curve gets more out of shape then the contribution level will have to increase. The Tax man isn't getting enough in as it is due to the state benefit system pissing cash like blood out of a cut artery. The NHS is strapped for cash so will not fund the shortfall unilaterally this leaves a couple of options 1. Scrap the NHS pension scheme. 2. Increase member contributions and change the terms and conditions.

    Option 1. Not being looked at as a serious option YET but it will be with 15-20 years.

    Option 2. change the accrual basis for the scheme from 1/80th to 1/60th hmm cant do that its against the trust deed. OK open a new scheme on a 1/60th basis increase member contributions on a sliding scale and increase the Normal retirement Age form 60 to 65. All of that was done and brought into play April 2008. However its not enough, there's still a massive shortfall so what will happen next will be the scheme switching from a final salary basis to a career average revalued basis ie your pension will be based on the average salary throughout your career. This will cut the funding requirements somewhat but member contributions will still rise probably to 10-11.5% of salary and the scheme will end up being tied to State retirement age which will rise to 70 within 20 years.

    Now if you look at that model and apply it across the public sector you will see that change is coming because the country cannot afford to fund through taxation the massive shortfall in public sector retirement benefits. This change will happen and my belief is based on the fact that the armed forces pension will be changing. The Armed Forces are being done first because they can't go on strike. Simple as that, the rest will follow.

    Now Skid2 I don't know what scheme your in but I'll tell you this even if you have to pay 11% of salary for a career averaged pension with a retirement of 68 you will not get anything close in the private sector as what final Salary schemes are left will be wound up and closed off.

    In closing what ever scheme your in is massively better than anything available to the private sector so stop being a Princess and crack on hey, Oh and if you were on strike today bully for you I wasn't I was working in the private sector and lined up about £10,000 for myself by creating income for myself and the two other guys I work with.
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  9. Despite being bone as ****, it's actually an interesting topic. A large number of people in the public sector seem to share the belief that they are the workhorses of the country and the private sector simple feather their own nests. Indeed, unless you take a step back, that's how it must seem.

    When I was in the Army, I had a similar philosophy. I was doing something worthwhile for my country and people working cushy civvie jobs were contributing **** all. It didn't occur to me at the time (in a practical way, at least) that their taxes were paying my wages.
  10. The Tory govt is doing very well so far at turning working people against each other.
  11. I think you can thank the unions for that.
  12. Good point. What they should be doing in looking at the savings that could be made by dealing with the benefit dependency culture. But that's too hard for them, obviously.
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  13. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

    Mate your a very naughty boy you know that! Its not the political flavour of the government its the demographic of the country in relation to non funded final salary schemes. This has been on the cards for over a decade its just being accelerated and the government of the day have the unenviable position of having to have to do it. The change over to the New NHS pension scheme was enacted under the previous government and the unions did jack shit about it infact they actually supported it as a good idea which blew my mind. why the hell unison or the RCN didn't step up then and say Oi Oi this is a bad idea I have no idea, well actually I do but I've no proof.

    Things like increased life expectancy really **** things up for scheme administrators. Large final salary pension schemes are dead in the water. They will go before the end of your working life. However one thing that would alleviate the pressure on Your scheme and other central government schemes is a dramatic cut in the state benefit system. For example when you have three generations of one family all claiming the dole or incapacity benefit with no incentive to work you know the systems is going to be stretched to breaking point.

    Something has to give and to be blunt I rather wish it was the benefit budget than the NHS pension, but I'm not in charge of the country so I can't influence it. All I and the guys I work with can do is assist people to make the most of what ever tax breaks are available to them within the current system.
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  14. As the Iron Duck has so clearly pointed out, everything that's crap in our lives is produced, promoted and controlled by the private sector -- especially our politicians.
  15. Cameron, Coulson and Clarkson?