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What happens if the government loses a Brexit-related HoC vote?

Good point.
Could the Tories argue that they are no longer able to deliver the manifesto commitments due to their being a minority government? That has perhaps not been admitted but seems to be a fact.

If there is an election, I think the Tories can win, assuming that May cannot run. What can the Tories do about those pro-EU Tory MPs who are causing the PM so many problems?[/QUOTE

Deselect them?
 
but then you whinge the remainers won't get behind Brexit. get on with it no matter half the country still hates the result.
Politics is the art of the possible there's no reason for half the country to cooperate in any way with a hard Brexit 17 million votes count
16 million apparently don't count at all those aren't good odds especially as the majority of leave voters are old
Remainers are the convenient scapegoat to mitigate the disaster unfolding in front of our eyes.

It is for the Brexit dept to propose something that everyone can get behind - if the sunlit uplands are just around the corner, why is everything still shrouded in mist?

Personally the biggest issue I think is that everyone voted for their own version of Brexit.
So many promises were made and so much misunderstanding was fostered that many people didn't really know what they voted for; so everything is now being seen through their own filter, and since what they voted for isn't happening then naturally grievances are coming to the fore. Hence why any sort of pragmatism is shot down by the hard-liners.
 
Remainers are the convenient scapegoat to mitigate the disaster unfolding in front of our eyes.

It is for the Brexit dept to propose something that everyone can get behind - if the sunlit uplands are just around the corner, why is everything still shrouded in mist?

Personally the biggest issue I think is that everyone voted for their own version* of Brexit.
So many promises were made** and so much misunderstanding was fostered that many people didn't really know what they voted for; so everything is now being seen through their own filter, and since what they voted for isn't happening then naturally grievances are coming to the fore. Hence why any sort of pragmatism is shot down by the hard-liners.
*It was a binary question.

**A great many people didn't vote based on promises, leaflets, sides of buses or any other trivia.

The public's requirement was to vote; the government's requirement was to implement the results of that vote. It's that simple.

That the losers of the vote are disappointed is irrelevant.

As is their continued bleating.
 
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*It was a binary question.

**A great many people didn't vote based on promises, leaflets, sides of buses.

The public's requirement was to vote; the government's requirement was to implement the results of that vote. It's that simple.

That the losers of the vote are disappointed is irrelevant.

As is their continued bleating.
Yes, it was a binary question.

Therefore no one knew what brexit looked like. So whether its Brexit 'lite' (remain single market/EEA/just not governed by Brussels) or WTO no deal, its still Brexit.

'Leave the EU' and what that means is an interpretation coloured by their own experiences.

The fact that no one can agree on what they want Brexit to be is a brexiteer problem. Remainers are irrelevant in this argument as they're not the ones causing the issues.
 
Yes, it was a binary question.

Therefore no one knew what brexit looked like.
Irrelevant.

The job of the government now is facilitate the UK leaving the EU. Nothing more.

It would be a bonus to be able to do so under amicable and mutually profitable terms, but that seems increasingly unlikely.
 
Remainers are irrelevant in this argument as they're not the ones causing the issues.


Well, thats a highly subjective statement, isn't it?


Much of the Brexit issues appear to have arisen because the people conducting Brexit are themselves mostly committed "Remainers".....
 
Irrelevant.

The job of the government now is facilitate the UK leaving the EU. Nothing more.

It would be a bonus to be able to do so under amicable and mutually profitable terms, but that seems increasingly unlikely.
Isn't it curious that most of the bleating is actually coming from the Brexiteer side, who are not happy with how we are leaving? My TV screen is filled night after night with Jacob Rees Mogg and similar horrors wailing about how their own leader isn't leading us out properly.

The job of the government may be to facilitate the UK leaving the EU but in doing so, they still haven't silenced those who want their own interpretation of leaving.
 
Isn't it curious that most of the bleating is actually coming from the Brexiteer side, who are not happy with how we are leaving? My TV screen is filled night after night with Jacob Rees Mogg and similar horrors wailing about how their own leader isn't leading us out properly.

The job of the government may be to facilitate the UK leaving the EU but in doing so, they still haven't silenced those who want their own interpretation of leaving.[/QUOTE

Disagree with that. Most of the "bleating" is coming from those who can't accept the result of the referendum and trying in anyway they can to stop Brexit. Yes, PMTM hasn't handled the position well. That's why all the crying from the remainers is so noisy, helped by the coverage of the press but we're still leaving.
Roll on March.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
but then you whinge the remainers won't get behind Brexit. get on with it no matter half the country still hates the result.
Welcome to politics, thats how the game is played
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Personally the biggest issue I think is that everyone voted for their own version of Brexit.
Maybe some but I voted knowing that we would leave the Eu, whatever that means or brings is down to the Govt to deal with. I'm not naive but a realist. I was offered an option and I chose the leave one. How that is managed doesn't bother me unless we end up not leaving and then I would feel cheated but thats quite a normal feeling with UK politics.
 
Remainers are the convenient scapegoat to mitigate the disaster unfolding in front of our eyes.

It is for the Brexit dept to propose something that everyone can get behind - if the sunlit uplands are just around the corner, why is everything still shrouded in mist?

Personally the biggest issue I think is that everyone voted for their own version of Brexit.
So many promises were made and so much misunderstanding was fostered that many people didn't really know what they voted for; so everything is now being seen through their own filter, and since what they voted for isn't happening then naturally grievances are coming to the fore. Hence why any sort of pragmatism is shot down by the hard-liners.
There is no one idea behind which everyone can get. Not everyone will be happy and, while I wish that Remainers were more supportive of the UK, I can't make that happen, nor worry about the views of those who don't support Brexit.
Us Brexiteers are more than willing to reconcile with Remainers. We're not the ones throwing a strop.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
The single idea of leaving was what drew us to vote to leave.
 
No one seems able/willing to point out a couple of key facts.

First, as Brexiteers were neither a party nor a sitting parliament, they had no ability to guarantee what would happen post-brexit - everything they said (£350m etc) should have been taken as advisory or aspirational. They also did not have a mandate to conduct any planning, so saying they don't have a plan is trite.

Second, because we obeyed the rules of the EU and have restrained from trade negotiations whilst still a member, it is impossible to work out whether or not we will be better off - until after those negotiations conclude, and a suitable time for them to bed in. Obviously those unknowns will likely lead to a short term loss. But after a sufficient period, if we absolutely look after UK interests first, last and only, there is no reason why we should not be financially better off, especially if we de-regulate the City and make it the most attractive place to do business in the world. Who cares if the EU considers us a tax haven according to its own rules, if you aren't required to follow them any more?
 
but then you whinge the remainers won't get behind Brexit. get on with it no matter half the country still hates the result.
Politics is the art of the possible there's no reason for half the country to cooperate in any way with a hard Brexit 17 million votes count
16 million apparently don't count at all those aren't good odds especially as the majority of leave voters are old
Many will have passed on to the great kipper conference in the sky
 
*It was a binary question.

**A great many people didn't vote based on promises, leaflets, sides of buses or any other trivia.

The public's requirement was to vote; the government's requirement was to implement the results of that vote. It's that simple.

That the losers of the vote are disappointed is irrelevant.

As is their continued bleating.
Please tell that to BL, because for some reason to do with his innate (and entirely unfounded) sense of both moral and intellectual superiority, he doesn't understand the four extremely simple points that you have made above.
 
Remainers are the convenient scapegoat to mitigate the disaster unfolding in front of our eyes.

It is for the Brexit dept to propose something that everyone can get behind - if the sunlit uplands are just around the corner, why is everything still shrouded in mist?

Personally the biggest issue I think is that everyone voted for their own version of Brexit.
So many promises were made and so much misunderstanding was fostered that many people didn't really know what they voted for; so everything is now being seen through their own filter, and since what they voted for isn't happening then naturally grievances are coming to the fore. Hence why any sort of pragmatism is shot down by the hard-liners.
I hate the patronising tones of those whose arguments are based solely on ' How Brexit will damage our economy'.
My vote was based purely, 100% on a last chance of preventing my country being subsumed into a federal European state.

This was not for my benefit, I expect a period of economic turmoil which will not help me.

But my kids will be free to make their UK what they want it to be.
They will come to realize that is more important than cheap consumer goods.
 
Please tell that to BL, because for some reason to do with his innate (and entirely unfounded) sense of both moral and intellectual superiority, he doesn't understand the four extremely simple points that you have made above.
BL's entire raison d'être is predicated around doing nothing, being nothing and saying nothing that would attract the EU's attention toward the UK.

A small, grey man with small, grey aspirations.
 
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