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What happened after D Day ?

Yes, as has been said, the 79th Armoured Division carried on and was constantly in action until the end of the war, with elements assigned to almost every major offensive, particularly where the objective was heavily fortified, such as Le Havre, Boulougne, 's-Hertogenbosch, Walcheren, Overloon, the Reichswald, etc (though they missed Market-Garden due to being in the wrong place, as they were tied up with the battles for the Channel Ports at the time). They also supported US forces at various times, especially in the Rhineland.

The Crocodiles of 141 RAC didn't become a part of 79th Armd Div until October 1944, when 31 Tk Bde was absorbed by 79th Armd Div to become an all-Croc brigade, with an additional two Croc Regts. Before that 141 RAC belonged to the independent 31 Tk Bde, which also included two standard Churchill Tk Regts. However, 141 RAC were almost constantly on detached duty, providing Croc support to other units, including 79 Armd Div.

It wasn't unusual for Wasps from an infantry brigade to be massed as a single large 'Wasp Group' on a mission-by-mission basis, so it's possible that more than one battalion had its Wasps at Belsen. I've no specific info for 43rd Div, but 53rd Div often grouped its Wasps in such a manner (from roughly August 1944 onwards, two of the four sections in each Bn Carrier Pl were filled with Wasps - 3 per section).

In addition to the ARKs, which were held in relatively small numbers, any AVRE could carry an 'SBG' (Small Box Girder) Bridge, once counterweights and a winch had been fitted to the rear of the vehicle. These were frequently used throughout 1944-45, as were fascines. Bobbins however, don't seem to have been used much, if at all after D-Day, though perhaps they were used at Walcheren?

The division also included a handful of Churchill AVLBs, though these were intended for the support of the AVREs, rather than for the support of other units. Other Armoured Brigades also included a troop of Valentine or Churchill AVLBs (these were AVLBs in the conventional sense, with a mechanically-deployed/recovered bridge).

79th Armd Div grew hugely through the campaign, absorbing not only 31 Tk Bde, but also 33 Armd Bde (re-equipped with huge numbers of LVT Buffalo), two Kangaroo Regts and an independent Sherman DD Regt (the Sherman DDs had previously been farmed out to independent Armd Bdes, though trials and training had been carried out by 79th Armd Div).
 
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One of dads Cpls in his first Sapper troop had been a bulldozer driver at Belsen for the clear up which haunted him for the rest of his life. He was never tasked with the digging of tank scrapes because of his traumatic memories.
I found this that gives a bit more substance to the horror of the task. I know its the Sun Dad drove a bulldozer at Belsen ... it haunted him until day he died

It was horrific enough as a youngster just seeing the bulldozers doing that during the episode of ‘World at War’.
 
I believe US forces had no interest in Hobart's Funnies for their own landings. can someone elaborate?

I believe the Yanks used the swimming Shermans but launched them to far out and slightly of course rather large waves swamped all of them. The is some where on YouTube a short documentary on where divers found them all.
 
I believe the Yanks used the swimming Shermans but launched them to far out and slightly of course rather large waves swamped all of them. The is some where on YouTube a short documentary on where divers found them all.
Yes, it was apparently a combination of being launched too far out and then being side-on to the waves, due to trying to maintain their position in a cross-current. One theory I've read is that the British DDs did better because they were sailing on compass-bearings and thus stayed at 90 degrees to the shore and kept their sterns into the waves. The US DDs were apparently going on visual references such as church spires, so as they kept their bow pointed at the target, they presented their weak side-screens to the waves coming in behind them.
 
Yes, it was apparently a combination of being launched too far out and then being side-on to the waves, due to trying to maintain their position in a cross-current. One theory I've read is that the British DDs did better because they were sailing on compass-bearings and thus stayed at 90 degrees to the shore and kept their sterns into the waves. The US DDs were apparently going on visual references such as church spires, so as they kept their bow pointed at the target, they presented their weak side-screens to the waves coming in behind them.

The wiki article on DD tanks suggests they were generally vulnerable to currents as the US DD tanks at Utah got ashore but 2,000 yards off line. There is also mention that two Omaha DD tanks made the shore due to their skippers having pre-war experience of boats and knowing they couldn't deal with anything other than stern on. Even the lost tanks are now thought to have struggled on before succumbing rather than plunging straight to the bottom.

 

BingtheMing

Old-Salt
It was horrific enough as a youngster just seeing the bulldozers doing that during the episode of ‘World at War’.

Certainly remember watching the original programme Bob it was probably my first introduction to the horrors of the "final solution".
The series is being repeated at the moment but they no longer show that scene - and you can see why.
Didn't put me off a couple of years later joining the Corps as a planty though.
 
Certainly remember watching the original programme Bob it was probably my first introduction to the horrors of the "final solution".
The series is being repeated at the moment but they no longer show that scene - and you can see why.
Didn't put me off a couple of years later joining the Corps as a planty though.

Plant op eh?

Hence the ‘Ming’ in your user name no doubt :)

Mind you, could have been worse, you could have been the Pod Op... :)
 

BingtheMing

Old-Salt
Plant op eh?

Hence the ‘Ming’ in your user name no doubt :)

Mind you, could have been worse, you could have been the Pod Op... :)

Ah yes the lesser spotted Pod Op , watched one sweating like a virgin bride for 30 mins trying to start the donkey engine until I chucked him a can of " Start ya Basturt ".

Incidentally I fcuked up a bit with the user name as it should have been Ming The Bing as Ming is the Scots way of pronouncing my surname and we were brought up in the shadow of a coal tip which is known up here as a "bing" - everyday a school day.
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
...

In addition to the ARKs, which were held in relatively small numbers, any AVRE could carry an 'SBG' (Small Box Girder) Bridge, once counterweights and a winch had been fitted to the rear of the vehicle. These were frequently used throughout 1944-45, as were fascines. Bobbins however, don't seem to have been used much, if at all after D-Day, though perhaps they were used at Walcheren?

...
I don't think so, most of the armour was Sherman and of limited value as they couldn't really leave the roadways on the dikes. Due to the defensive flooding by the Germans and the pre-offensive flooding of Walcheren by Allied bombers most of OP Infatuate was Infantry led. Landings were made by Buffalo (Canadian versions of the American LVT's), DUKW and (in the case of 4SSB) conventional landing craft. The AVRE which Bobbin was attached to would have been to large and heavy for Buffalo in any case. The following photo's don't seem to show DD Shermans, there is some flamethrower 'action', which may well have been Wasps.
Screenshot (68).png

Screenshot (67).png

Screenshot (66).png

Screenshot (69).png



ETA - also found this, it's unclear which OP the photo is from though, only part of the Scheldt Estuary landings.
1609347608596.png
 
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I don't think so, most of the armour was Sherman and of limited value as they couldn't really leave the roadways on the dikes. Due to the defensive flooding by the Germans and the pre-offensive flooding of Walcheren by Allied bombers most of OP Infatuate was Infantry led. Landings were made by Buffalo (Canadian versions of the American LVT's), DUKW and (in the case of 4SSB) conventional landing craft. The AVRE which Bobbin was attached to would have been to large and heavy for Buffalo in any case. The following photo's don't seem to show DD Shermans, there is some flamethrower 'action', which may well have been Wasps.
View attachment 534339
View attachment 534340
View attachment 534341
View attachment 534342


ETA - also found this, it's unclear which OP the photo is from though, only part of the Scheldt Estuary landings.
View attachment 534348
No, they didn't use DDs at Walcheren, though they did land some AVREs and Crabs directly from LCTs at Westkapelle. By the way, that's a lovely shot of an SBG bridge sticking up at the back of that LCT! :)

The Staffs Yeo had been converted to DDs after Normandy and 'B' Squadron was employed to support 52 Div's assault on South Beveland, but for some reason they weren't employed in the assault on Walcheren. Perhaps they were afraid of the sea state?
 
Oh yes, the 'indirect fire' by Wasps was during the assault across the Leopold Canal, during Operation 'Switchback'; the assault on the Breskens Pocket, south of the Scheldt. They were able to park the Wasps on the bank of the canal-dyke, so were able to get additional elevation, thus enabling them to get the flame-shots over the canal and into the German trenches.

(I was once able to persuade the Memsahib to drag herself away from the culture and shopping of Bruges to go for a drive into the 'lovely countryside' north of Bruges... Somewhat amazingly we found the Leopold Canal, the Braakman Inlet, Walcheren, Flushing, Westkapelle... ;) )
 
I don't think so, most of the armour was Sherman and of limited value as they couldn't really leave the roadways on the dikes. Due to the defensive flooding by the Germans and the pre-offensive flooding of Walcheren by Allied bombers most of OP Infatuate was Infantry led. Landings were made by Buffalo (Canadian versions of the American LVT's), DUKW and (in the case of 4SSB) conventional landing craft. The AVRE which Bobbin was attached to would have been to large and heavy for Buffalo in any case. The following photo's don't seem to show DD Shermans, there is some flamethrower 'action', which may well have been Wasps.

**SNIP**
Sorry, @OneTenner, it's beginning to look as though I've got it in for you!

1. LVT called "Water Buffalo" in US service; in British service "Buffalo" in 21 AG and "Fantail" in 8 Army (Italy)

2. I'd be interested in your source for the Canadian provenance of these vehicles. Futter* states "The majority were manufactured by various plants of the Food Machinery Corporation and by Graham-Paige Motor Corporation of Detroit and the St. Louis Car Company."

3. No, not DUKW but Terrapin, the British designed equivalent.
gb_ww2_terrapin_0001.jpg


4. As the majority of the DD Shermans could not climb out of the river at South Beveland because of the steep muddy banks, a carpet-laying attachment was designed for installation on the Buffalo because of its superior performance in these conditions.

gb_ww2_buffalo-carpet-layer_0001.jpg

gb_ww2_buffalo-carpet-layer_0002.jpg

*Futter, Geoffrey W. The Funnies. Model & Allied Publications, Hemel Hempstead (GB), 1974. ISBN 0-85242-405-1
**Page 96**
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
Sorry, @OneTenner

1. LVT called "Water Buffalo" in US service; in British service "Buffalo" in 21 AG and "Fantail" in 8 Army (Italy)

2. I'd be interested in your source for the Canadian provenance of these vehicles. Futter* states "The majority were manufactured by various plants of the Food Machinery Corporation and by Graham-Paige Motor Corporation of Detroit and the St. Louis Car Company."
No WW2 LVT's were made in Canada the series was made in the USA

Borg-Warner made the LVT-3 which didnt see service until Okinawa and was mainly used post war and in Korea, it was finally replaced by the LVTP-5 in time for Vietnam. (LVTP-5 had a front ramp, and it unfortunately had its petrol tanks in the belly, making it severely vulnerable to mines)


There was a British made vehicle similar to LVT-4 called the Neptune iirc
 

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