pimpernel
LE
Interesting dress sense, is he ex Cav!
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What happened after D Day ?
- Thread starter sirbhp
- Start date
LE
Mölders 1
Old-Salt
pimpernel
LE
It appears not, but what a great working life as historian to the Tank museum. Thats what I call loving your work.
Signalman
LE
Yes, as has been said, the 79th Armoured Division carried on and was constantly in action until the end of the war, with elements assigned to almost every major offensive, particularly where the objective was heavily fortified, such as Le Havre, Boulougne, 's-Hertogenbosch, Walcheren, Overloon, the Reichswald, etc (though they missed Market-Garden due to being in the wrong place, as they were tied up with the battles for the Channel Ports at the time). They also supported US forces at various times, especially in the Rhineland.
The Crocodiles of 141 RAC didn't become a part of 79th Armd Div until October 1944, when 31 Tk Bde was absorbed by 79th Armd Div to become an all-Croc brigade, with an additional two Croc Regts. Before that 141 RAC belonged to the independent 31 Tk Bde, which also included two standard Churchill Tk Regts. However, 141 RAC were almost constantly on detached duty, providing Croc support to other units, including 79 Armd Div.
It wasn't unusual for Wasps from an infantry brigade to be massed as a single large 'Wasp Group' on a mission-by-mission basis, so it's possible that more than one battalion had its Wasps at Belsen. I've no specific info for 43rd Div, but 53rd Div often grouped its Wasps in such a manner (from roughly August 1944 onwards, two of the four sections in each Bn Carrier Pl were filled with Wasps - 3 per section).
In addition to the ARKs, which were held in relatively small numbers, any AVRE could carry an 'SBG' (Small Box Girder) Bridge, once counterweights and a winch had been fitted to the rear of the vehicle. These were frequently used throughout 1944-45, as were fascines. Bobbins however, don't seem to have been used much, if at all after D-Day, though perhaps they were used at Walcheren?
The division also included a handful of Churchill AVLBs, though these were intended for the support of the AVREs, rather than for the support of other units. Other Armoured Brigades also included a troop of Valentine or Churchill AVLBs (these were AVLBs in the conventional sense, with a mechanically-deployed/recovered bridge).
79th Armd Div grew hugely through the campaign, absorbing not only 31 Tk Bde, but also 33 Armd Bde (re-equipped with huge numbers of LVT Buffalo), two Kangaroo Regts and an independent Sherman DD Regt (the Sherman DDs had previously been farmed out to independent Armd Bdes, though trials and training had been carried out by 79th Armd Div).
The Crocodiles of 141 RAC didn't become a part of 79th Armd Div until October 1944, when 31 Tk Bde was absorbed by 79th Armd Div to become an all-Croc brigade, with an additional two Croc Regts. Before that 141 RAC belonged to the independent 31 Tk Bde, which also included two standard Churchill Tk Regts. However, 141 RAC were almost constantly on detached duty, providing Croc support to other units, including 79 Armd Div.
It wasn't unusual for Wasps from an infantry brigade to be massed as a single large 'Wasp Group' on a mission-by-mission basis, so it's possible that more than one battalion had its Wasps at Belsen. I've no specific info for 43rd Div, but 53rd Div often grouped its Wasps in such a manner (from roughly August 1944 onwards, two of the four sections in each Bn Carrier Pl were filled with Wasps - 3 per section).
In addition to the ARKs, which were held in relatively small numbers, any AVRE could carry an 'SBG' (Small Box Girder) Bridge, once counterweights and a winch had been fitted to the rear of the vehicle. These were frequently used throughout 1944-45, as were fascines. Bobbins however, don't seem to have been used much, if at all after D-Day, though perhaps they were used at Walcheren?
The division also included a handful of Churchill AVLBs, though these were intended for the support of the AVREs, rather than for the support of other units. Other Armoured Brigades also included a troop of Valentine or Churchill AVLBs (these were AVLBs in the conventional sense, with a mechanically-deployed/recovered bridge).
79th Armd Div grew hugely through the campaign, absorbing not only 31 Tk Bde, but also 33 Armd Bde (re-equipped with huge numbers of LVT Buffalo), two Kangaroo Regts and an independent Sherman DD Regt (the Sherman DDs had previously been farmed out to independent Armd Bdes, though trials and training had been carried out by 79th Armd Div).
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bob_the_bomb
LE
It was horrific enough as a youngster just seeing the bulldozers doing that during the episode of ‘World at War’.
I believe the Yanks used the swimming Shermans but launched them to far out and slightly of course rather large waves swamped all of them. The is some where on YouTube a short documentary on where divers found them all.
Signalman
LE
Yes, it was apparently a combination of being launched too far out and then being side-on to the waves, due to trying to maintain their position in a cross-current. One theory I've read is that the British DDs did better because they were sailing on compass-bearings and thus stayed at 90 degrees to the shore and kept their sterns into the waves. The US DDs were apparently going on visual references such as church spires, so as they kept their bow pointed at the target, they presented their weak side-screens to the waves coming in behind them.
The wiki article on DD tanks suggests they were generally vulnerable to currents as the US DD tanks at Utah got ashore but 2,000 yards off line. There is also mention that two Omaha DD tanks made the shore due to their skippers having pre-war experience of boats and knowing they couldn't deal with anything other than stern on. Even the lost tanks are now thought to have struggled on before succumbing rather than plunging straight to the bottom.
DD tank - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Goldbricker
LE
One of the dumbest things I ever did was give these books away to a buddy when I moved 4 years ago. I figured a replacement would be cheap and easy to source
Landships
War Cars
The Great Tank Scandal
Vanguard of Victory
I got them in the late 80's early 90's at a NYC bookstore called Sky books
BingtheMing
Old-Salt
Certainly remember watching the original programme Bob it was probably my first introduction to the horrors of the "final solution".
The series is being repeated at the moment but they no longer show that scene - and you can see why.
Didn't put me off a couple of years later joining the Corps as a planty though.
bob_the_bomb
LE
Plant op eh?
Hence the ‘Ming’ in your user name no doubt
Mind you, could have been worse, you could have been the Pod Op...
BingtheMing
Old-Salt
Plant op eh?
Hence the ‘Ming’ in your user name no doubt
Mind you, could have been worse, you could have been the Pod Op...
Ah yes the lesser spotted Pod Op , watched one sweating like a virgin bride for 30 mins trying to start the donkey engine until I chucked him a can of " Start ya Basturt ".
Incidentally I fcuked up a bit with the user name as it should have been Ming The Bing as Ming is the Scots way of pronouncing my surname and we were brought up in the shadow of a coal tip which is known up here as a "bing" - everyday a school day.
I don't think so, most of the armour was Sherman and of limited value as they couldn't really leave the roadways on the dikes. Due to the defensive flooding by the Germans and the pre-offensive flooding of Walcheren by Allied bombers most of OP Infatuate was Infantry led. Landings were made by Buffalo (Canadian versions of the American LVT's), DUKW and (in the case of 4SSB) conventional landing craft. The AVRE which Bobbin was attached to would have been to large and heavy for Buffalo in any case. The following photo's don't seem to show DD Shermans, there is some flamethrower 'action', which may well have been Wasps.
ETA - also found this, it's unclear which OP the photo is from though, only part of the Scheldt Estuary landings.
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Signalman
LE
No, they didn't use DDs at Walcheren, though they did land some AVREs and Crabs directly from LCTs at Westkapelle. By the way, that's a lovely shot of an SBG bridge sticking up at the back of that LCT!
The Staffs Yeo had been converted to DDs after Normandy and 'B' Squadron was employed to support 52 Div's assault on South Beveland, but for some reason they weren't employed in the assault on Walcheren. Perhaps they were afraid of the sea state?
Signalman
LE
Oh yes, the 'indirect fire' by Wasps was during the assault across the Leopold Canal, during Operation 'Switchback'; the assault on the Breskens Pocket, south of the Scheldt. They were able to park the Wasps on the bank of the canal-dyke, so were able to get additional elevation, thus enabling them to get the flame-shots over the canal and into the German trenches.
(I was once able to persuade the Memsahib to drag herself away from the culture and shopping of Bruges to go for a drive into the 'lovely countryside' north of Bruges... Somewhat amazingly we found the Leopold Canal, the Braakman Inlet, Walcheren, Flushing, Westkapelle... )
(I was once able to persuade the Memsahib to drag herself away from the culture and shopping of Bruges to go for a drive into the 'lovely countryside' north of Bruges... Somewhat amazingly we found the Leopold Canal, the Braakman Inlet, Walcheren, Flushing, Westkapelle...
)
AnotherBerliner
War Hero
Fletcher states that it's on Walcheren.
Fletcher, David. Vanguard of Victory: The 79th Armoured Division. HMSO, London, 1984. ISBN 0-11-290422-X
**page 54**
AnotherBerliner
War Hero
Sorry, @OneTenner, it's beginning to look as though I've got it in for you!
1. LVT called "Water Buffalo" in US service; in British service "Buffalo" in 21 AG and "Fantail" in 8 Army (Italy)
2. I'd be interested in your source for the Canadian provenance of these vehicles. Futter* states "The majority were manufactured by various plants of the Food Machinery Corporation and by Graham-Paige Motor Corporation of Detroit and the St. Louis Car Company."
3. No, not DUKW but Terrapin, the British designed equivalent.
4. As the majority of the DD Shermans could not climb out of the river at South Beveland because of the steep muddy banks, a carpet-laying attachment was designed for installation on the Buffalo because of its superior performance in these conditions.
*Futter, Geoffrey W. The Funnies. Model & Allied Publications, Hemel Hempstead (GB), 1974. ISBN 0-85242-405-1
**Page 96**
No problems matey, some good info there, I've read a bit over the years and most of the above was from Edwin Popken https://video.wixstatic.com/video/cc686b_05bbe849fe3a429c98b5f6783188402f/480p/mp4/file.mp4
Who I presumed / assumed had better sources than I (Turns out maybe he should be contacting you!)
Westkapelle was a harbour / beach assault so suited to 'normal' landing craft as I read it. Happy to be corrected though!.
Who I presumed / assumed had better sources than I (Turns out maybe he should be contacting you!)
Westkapelle was a harbour / beach assault so suited to 'normal' landing craft as I read it. Happy to be corrected though!.
Goldbricker
LE
No WW2 LVT's were made in Canada the series was made in the USA
Borg-Warner made the LVT-3 which didnt see service until Okinawa and was mainly used post war and in Korea, it was finally replaced by the LVTP-5 in time for Vietnam. (LVTP-5 had a front ramp, and it unfortunately had its petrol tanks in the belly, making it severely vulnerable to mines)
There was a British made vehicle similar to LVT-4 called the Neptune iirc
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