What does the Left have to offer the UK?

#1
We have had the National Assistance Act and the NHS. The minimum wage ensures workers have the right to fair pay and Labour laws protect them at work. All these things were decided in the past and with Labour having had thirteen years of passing a law everyday surely there can be little for Labour to do. So what about the Unions? I must admit I personally see no reason for them to even exist in the present day and after watching the disgraceful strikes at BA, the bellicose threats of various union leaders and the recent march through London, I am of the opinion that they are nothing more than organised ways of getting funds from the workers to fuel the political aims of a few, very powerful, yet very unsavoury individuals.

So the question is; at this moment in time what is it that the left is offering that this country needs, other than simply being in opposition?
 
#2
Labour never had anything to offer 'the workers'. If it was all about 'the workers', Herr Hitler would be the darling of international socialism as he introduced far more and more far reaching workers rights and reforms.

Labour exists so that angst ridden upper class idiologues can lord it over the peasants without being seen to be lording it over said peasants and making an excellent living while doing so.


Exhibit A: Harriet Ruth Harman, QC

Her aunt was Elizabeth Pakenham, Countess of Longford, and her cousins include writers Lady Antonia Fraser and Lady Rachel Billington.
 
#4
Put quite simply: a utopian promise they can't deliver on.

They've bankrupted the country and bankrolled the middle classes and when faced with the choice of rolling back the public sector to the levels not seen since 2008 (oh the shock!) they are starting to look attractive again. Look at it this way: if you are Islington Council's Black, Lesbian, and Transgendered Equality in the Nuclear Free-Zone Co-Ordinator, the chances are your job is safe. Why? Because you are part of the new left middle-class establishment and they won't turn on their own. If you are a street cleaner, working class, and actually needed then all I can say is "unlucky" because you'r jobs a gonner. The cynacism of the left is that they sneer on the likes of the street cleaner, but tell him he has to be part of the "struggle" against the Tory "class war" and they keep him on-side partly because he's socially engrained to always vote Labour and also because he fears for his future.

The left has become the great suckling tit of the age and nobody's going to actively want to vote to remove the promise of total employment and "public services" stepping in and doing everything for you. The problem is, as Maggie Thatcher said, is that sooner or later the socialists run out of other people's money. And then what?

For as long as people want to have their cake and eat it the Left will always exist.
 
#5
This may be true but regardless of who enacted them there are plenty of safety nets and professional bodies to keep the workers and the poor in beer and tabs. So the question still stands. Labour what is it good for?
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
while not a fan of bob crow and his ilk by any means, I've worked for a few firms where if a union hadnt been present, the staff would have been run roughshod over completely, rather than just being treated like sh**e. when the balance swings from them looking out for their members interests towards acting as a vehicle for their leader's ego however, is where the problems start IMHO.
 
#8
A fair question but not the one I asked. Maybe you would like to point us towards a few grand aims of the left. On the right I would say smaller government and thus a reduction in state spending is the current aim.
 
#9
A fair question but not the one I asked. Maybe you would like to point us towards a few grand aims of the left. On the right I would say smaller government and thus a reduction in state spending is the current aim.

Bait and switch is a standard tactic of the non employed left when someone asks them an awkward question.


Funny thing is, if they got the socialism they so crave, the skiving gits would find themselves gainfully employed in a gulag.
 
#10
The key change in Labour Party ideology occurred when Clause IV of the Labour Party Constitution was changed by Tory Blair in 1994 from:

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

To the wishy washy:

"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect."

This was the slip that allowed the Chardonay Socialists to take over.

The strength of a democratic society is a loyal opposition with clear goals which subjects proposed policies to effective scrutiny and debate. At the moment there does not seem to be much ideological substance to either Party and even less effective scrutiny or debate.
 
#11
Put quite simply: a utopian promise they can't deliver on.

They've bankrupted the country and bankrolled the middle classes and when faced with the choice of rolling back the public sector to the levels not seen since 2008 (oh the shock!) they are starting to look attractive again. Look at it this way: if you are Islington Council's Black, Lesbian, and Transgendered Equality in the Nuclear Free-Zone Co-Ordinator, the chances are your job is safe. Why? Because you are part of the new left middle-class establishment and they won't turn on their own. If you are a street cleaner, working class, and actually needed then all I can say is "unlucky" because you'r jobs a gonner. The cynacism of the left is that they sneer on the likes of the street cleaner, but tell him he has to be part of the "struggle" against the Tory "class war" and they keep him on-side partly because he's socially engrained to always vote Labour and also because he fears for his future.

The left has become the great suckling tit of the age and nobody's going to actively want to vote to remove the promise of total employment and "public services" stepping in and doing everything for you. The problem is, as Maggie Thatcher said, is that sooner or later the socialists run out of other people's money. And then what?

For as long as people want to have their cake and eat it the Left will always exist.
A prime example of this is Hull City Council which is run by a leftist Lib Dem majority with a hard left Labour strong opposition.

They have laid off workers right, left and centre but refuse to cancel the £200 a week floral contract for the Guildhall because it befits a Major City (sic) like Hull.
They also got rid of the Guildhall parking attendant until they realised that the great unwashed were sneaking in and using their parking facilities.
 
#12
while not a fan of bob crow and his ilk by any means, I've worked for a few firms where if a union hadnt been present, the staff would have been run roughshod over completely, rather than just being treated like sh**e. when the balance swings from them looking out for their members interests towards acting as a vehicle for their leader's ego however, is where the problems start IMHO.
Too true. What grips my shite, is the union leader with his eyes firmly placed (hypocritically) on the Upper house once he's done his (god given) job of upholding the workers rights. Also, that a few of the fights that the union take-on are for organistions/trades where they are probably already taking the piss and are aggrieved at having their gravy train taken away.

Unions should be applauded for defending the rights of workers where the employer is clearly trying one on, but to bring about huge distruption because the Fire Brigade/Tube drivers/BA Crew/et al* are afraid they are losing their well ingrained perks is a different matter.

For those of you who think the unions are permanently dooers of evil and the Devil incarnate should be luckly you've never been in the position where you've needed their help. Mostly they're cnuts but they do (some) good where it's needed.

* - Pick/add/ignore whatever particular body fucks you off the most.
 
#13
A prime example of this is Hull City Council which is run by a leftist Lib Dem majority with a hard left Labour strong opposition.

They have laid off workers right, left and centre but refuse to cancel the £200 a week floral contract for the Guildhall because it befits a Major City (sic) like Hull.
They also got rid of the Guildhall parking attendant until they realised that the great unwashed were sneaking in and using their parking facilities.
Ah, Hull Council, the instigators of one of the greatest spunkings away of public money in local government history when they squandered the windfall from their telephone company.
 
#14
Too true. What grips my shite, is the union leader with his eyes firmly placed (hypocritically) on the Upper house once he's done his (god given) job of upholding the workers rights. Also, that a few of the fights that the union take-on are for organistions/trades where they are probably already taking the piss and are aggrieved at having their gravy train taken away.

Unions should be applauded for defending the rights of workers where the employer is clearly trying one on, but to bring about huge distruption because the Fire Brigade/Tube drivers/BA Crew/et al* are afraid they are losing their well ingrained perks is a different matter.

For those of you who think the unions are permanently dooers of evil and the Devil incarnate should be luckly you've never been in the position where you've needed their help. Mostly they're cnuts but they do (some) good where it's needed.

* - Pick/add/ignore whatever particular body fucks you off the most.
Unions tend to work hard in Health & Safety and worker education but can be far too intransigent when it comes to industrial relations. You quite rightly cite the BA debacle as a triumph of greed over expediency.
 
#15
Ah, Hull Council, the instigators of one of the greatest spunkings away of public money in local government history when they squandered the windfall from their telephone company.
Yep, every last single penny spent with hardly anything to show for it and even talk of selling off the sports stadium. Plus they think Lard Prescott of Pies is a God round here because he cons them into thinking that a/ he's a common working man and b/ he gives a shit for the common working man. He loves his free meals at Mr Chu's though.
 
#16
All the left have to offer is more of the same: empty promises and weasel words. Welcome to the Socialists Utopia comrade.
 
#17

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#18
In the intrest of fairness what the **** has the right ever done for us?
When the question is what does the left offer, the answer in my mind is that it’s there to balance the right.

The big assumption I make in this is that the majority of the country is politically central with most people liking the NHS (a left wing idea) but wanting the personal wealth generated by capitalism. Politicians by contrast are much more polarised by their tribal party mentalities and the need to show consistant party responses to particular issues and hence don't actually represent many people.

If the more extreme right wing elements of the countries politics were allowed to operate unopposed then the country would not be a good place to be for the majority of the population despite the benefits to the economy that the right may bring. The right generally have a view that the individual is responsible for their path through life and while that is normally fine it can result in good people being left out of the countries progress. By way of an example I’d suggest the failure to replace heavy industry with other work in the 80s.

By contrast if the extreme left wing of politics is allowed to operate unopposed then we’d be in a similar position to the PIGS with no scope for getting ourselves out of trouble (ie, even worse off than we are now). It would be the late 70s all over again.

Fortunately we rotate our governments, albeit not very regularly, which ensures that no one ideology can run the country unopposed for too long. In a country a made up of the full spectrum of students, genuine benefit claimants, unemployed, low paid workers, high paid workers, business owners, the rich etc and it would be a sorry state of affairs if a dominant political ideology allowed any of these groups to genuinely suffer. For a bit of perspective; I don’t count missing out on an international holiday each year or being expected to get a job to be ‘suffering’.


Phew... Sorry about all that. I probably should just have written the word 'balance' and stopped there.
 
#19
Two thoughts:

Firstly, why is it that despite professing to care for the 'workers' the average leftist MP represents areas that have continually been desolate economic wastelands for decades? What improvements have they ever given to their constituences - sweet FA!

Secondly - my experience is that in power, leftists are some of the rudest and obnoxious types you'll ever meet, possessed with a 'holier than thou' belief. Ministers in the last government were legendary for reducing their staff to tears, screaming abuse, shouting, swearing and acting as if the person trying to help them was utter scum. The current crop seem to possess something bizarre called 'manners'...
 

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