What does the British Army think of these US observations about gallantry medals?

Discussion in 'US' started by JohnBloke, Nov 22, 2010.

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  1. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    Send him out and let him try and earn one then he can see for himself how it's been "feminized"
  2. Funny slant on Christianity he has got....

    Lamenting the fact the MoH is awarded for preventing the loss of life, rather than the indescriminate causing of it.

    Fcuk the fruit cake. Has he been to war? Has he noted that we are now conducting a different style of Ops than Normandy 1944? Has he managed to secure a 'masculine' version of these 'feminized' (sic) medals for himself? No? Well STFU my bible thumping friend.
  3. **** Bryan Fischer and the horse he rode in on.

  4. Sorry, didn't realise it only counted when you killed people. I suggest the MoD write to everyone who's ever earned a gallantry medal in the 'girly' way. Like... oh yeah every single recipient of the George Cross. ****!
  5. Fuckin cnuts got Glentonitis
  6. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

  7. He's a clown for suggesting that this is somehow a new feature.

    In Korea, Lt Tom Hudner (now Captain, USN ret) was awarded the MoH for deliberately crashing his F4U in a bid to rescue Ensign Jesse Brown (the first African American USN aviator by the by - this played no part in Hudner's decision or the MoH award before anyone wonders). Sadly, he wasn't able to get Brown out of the cockpit, and although he managed to keep him alive (after putting out a fire using handfuls of snow), Brown utlimately succumbed to his injuries.

    Then we have Bernie Fisher, who recieved the MoH for landing his aircraft under fire to recover a fellow pilot shot down at A Shau during the Vietnam War, and from the same conflict, Steve Bennett, who rode his OV-10 down to a ditching because his backseater couldn't (for reasons I forget) eject. Bennett knew that ditching an OV-10 had poor prospects for the front seater, but did it anyway - the backseater survived, but Bennett drowned. You can argue that Leo Thorsness's MoH was based more upon a bid to save life, as was his fellow F-105 driver Merlyn Dethlefsen's award(although breaking stuff was involved in those two).

    Then Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon's awards of the MoH were because they put themselves into the middle of a Somali mob to try to save Mike Durrant during the battle of Mogadishu.

    So if the MoH has been 'feminised' then it was a damn long time ago, and I'd suggest that Mr Fischer might want to put that proposition to some of the surviving MoH holders, or to those who were rescued by them/as a result of their actions. I daresay that even allowing for the advancing years of said MoH holders, Mr Fischer might appreciate the merits of those prepared to take risk to save life...
  8. Utter Tit. Defusing bombs, rushing out into fire to save your mates, jumping on a live Grenade. All of these are obviously acts of big Puffs.
    Heroism is about putting others first above yourself and disregarding all the danger and doing the ridiculous things normal mortals wouldnt even consider doing!!!
  9. Oddly enough my son and I had dinner last night with an individual who EARNED (not won) the Medal in Vietnam. He was quite impressed with SSG Giunta. I would take his opinion over some crazy evangelical preacher any day of the week.

    Nothing wrong with saving lives. A few year ago I had lunch another recipient (Korea). He was telling me about another man who earned the medal during WW II. In describing how the individual retrieved several wounded while under heavy fire, although wounded himself. He got quite choked up describing the actions. If a man with the MoH gets choked up decribing another's valour you know it is impressive.

    I hope all are aware that evangelical preachers are not representative of mainstream US opinion.
    I have nothing against members of the clergy. Here are a couple I would respect far more than Mr. Fischer
    Vincent Robert Capodanno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Joseph T. O'Callahan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  10. Apparently (I haven't visited his blog and don't intend to) someone's reaction was: "What utterly disgusting, false and un-Christian drivel" [my bold]. I've never had the privilege (?) of being in combat, but I strongly suspect it's much easier to kill people than to voluntarily and avoidably risk being killed in order to save someone else's life. He should think of the passage from the Bible, where it says "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).

    Didn't think I'd find myself quoting the Bible on Arrse ;-)
  11. I went to the link to read more about this person and I was immediately struck by the fact that the article appeared in that well-known Lefty-rag "The Huffington Post". As Eric Idle said, "Say No More!":thumbdown: I don't allow the mouth organ of the gazillionaire George Soros to pollute my in-box.

    That being said, it does appear that the person named did say something to the effect that the MoH has been <quote>feminized</quote>. As he has never been in a position to earn a Medal of Honor he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Mr. Gary Wetzel, a person of my acquaintance, who was awarded the Medal of Honor for an action in Vietnam, found it had a pretty steep cost.



    Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class (then Pfc.), U.S. Army, 173rd.
    Assault Helicopter Company. Place and date: Near Ap Dong An, Republic of
    Vietnam, 8 January 1968. Entered service at: Milwaukee WI. Bom 29
    September 1947, South Milwaukee, WI.

    Specialist Fourth Class WetzeL 173rd Assault Helicopter Company,
    distinguished himself by conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his
    life,above and beyond the call of duty. Specialist fourth Class Wetzel was
    serving as door gunner aboard a helicopter which was part of an insertion force
    trapped in a landing zone by intense and deadly enemy fire. Specialist Fourth
    Class Wetzel was going to the aid of his aircraft commander when he was blown
    into a rice paddy and critically wounded by two enemy rockets that exploded
    just inches from his location. Although bleeding profusely due to the loss of his
    left arm and severe wounds to his right arm, chest, and left leg, Specialist Fourth
    Class Wetzel staggered back to his original position in his gun-well and took the
    enemy forces under fire. His machine gun was the only weapon placing effective
    fire on the enemy at that time.Through a resolve that overcome the shock and
    intolerable pain of his injuries , Specialist Fourth Class Wetzel remained in his
    position until he had eliminated the automatic weapons emplacement that had
    been inflicting heavy casualties on the American troops and preventing them
    from moving against this strong enemy force. Refusing to attend to his extensive
    wounds, he attempted to return to the aid of his aircraft commander but passed
    out from the loss of blood. Regaining consciousness, he persisted in his efforts
    to drag himself to the aid of his fellow crewmen. After an agonizing effort he
    came to the side of a crew-chief who was attempting to drag the wounded
    aircraft commander to the safety of a nearby dike. Unswerving in his devotion to
    his fellow man, Specialist Fourth Class Wetzel assisted his crew chief even
    though he lost consciousness once again during this action. Specialist Fourth
    Class Wetzel displayed extraordinary heroism in his efforts to aid his fellow
    crewmen. His gallant actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the
    U.S. Army and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his Country.

    Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class (then Pfc.), U.S. Army, 173rd.
  12. Having lived here for a while now I find there are some pretty unusual interpretations of the description "Christian" - some verge on the fanatic and others I am convinced involve medieval like self flagelation. That aside, I met a chap called Thornton a couple of weeks ago and had the privelege of shaking his hand at the annual SEAL Muster.

    Michael E. Thornton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    His citation:

    For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while participating in a daring operation against enemy forces. PO Thornton, as Assistant U.S. Navy Advisor, along with a U.S. Navy lieutenant serving as Senior Advisor, accompanied a 3-man Vietnamese Navy SEAL patrol on an intelligence gathering and prisoner capture operation against an enemy-occupied naval river base. Launched from a Vietnamese Navy junk in a rubber boat, the patrol reached land and was continuing on foot toward its objective when it suddenly came under heavy fire from a numerically superior force. The patrol called in naval gunfire support and then engaged the enemy in a fierce firefight, accounting for many enemy casualties before moving back to the waterline to prevent encirclement. Upon learning that the Senior Advisor had been hit by enemy fire and was believed to be dead, PO Thornton returned through a hail of fire to the lieutenant's last position; quickly disposed of 2 enemy soldiers about to overrun the position, and succeeded in removing the seriously wounded and unconscious Senior Naval Advisor to the water's edge. He then inflated the lieutenant's lifejacket and towed him seaward for approximately 2 hours until picked up by support craft. By his extraordinary courage and perseverance, PO Thornton was directly responsible for saving the life of his superior officer and enabling the safe extraction of all patrol members, thereby upholding the highest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service
  13. 'Fischer, director of issue analysis for the AFA, a longtime lobby on the Christian right'

    Regardless of his religious or political views, if he shared even a fraction of any MoH recipient's achievements, then he might have some credibility. As it is, he sounds like just another gobshite who seeks to exploit others' accomplishments, having none of his own to offer.

    Edit; he seems to have fairly warped definitions of masculinity and christianity, as well. I'd always thought that professional soldiering was more about saving lives than taking them. Any gutless thug can kill someone.