What does Englishness mean from your point of view?

#1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/03/23/do2302.xml

It is an interesting article written by Stephen Pollard - a chairman of the European Institute for the Study of Contemporary Anti-Semitism.

Next Wednesday, England play Andorra in a qualification match for the 2008 European Championships. I am rather surprised that nobody has yet asked me which team I want to win. Surprised, because all sorts of people have asked me the same question about England's match tomorrow.

I was born, bred and brought up in London. I have only ever lived in England. I make clear to anyone who will listen that there is no logical reason for England to be in a union with Scotland and that we should wave the ungrateful, sclerotic, subsidy-junkie nation goodbye.
So it is OK to use expressions like 'the ungrateful, sclerotic, subsidy-junkie nation' toward our Scottish friends. I fancy an outcry about anti-Semitism if similar expression would be used toward Britons of Jewish descent.

So why should anyone be in doubt as to which team I want to win tomorrow?

For one reason: I am Jewish, and tomorrow England play Israel. And although, for most Englishmen, their support for the national football team is a given, for Jews, apparently, it is not.
Is mr.Pollard an Englishman from your point of view? Or rather a Briton of Jewish descent?

What about dame Helen Myrren? She is of course a British actress. But is she namely English? (I believe that yes)

The creation of Israel in 1948 gave this an added twist. Jews are no longer just a rootless tribe conspiring for their own advantage, but are now also agents of a foreign power who use their overweening influence in politics, business and the media to align foreign policy in Israel's interests - perhaps you remember when the former US presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan, referred to Congress as "Israeli-occupied territory".

The same theme is regularly trotted out in regard to the Iraq war, as when, in 2003, the then Father of the House, Tam Dalyell, said that Tony Blair was "being unduly influenced by a cabal of Jewish advisers". To paraphrase: if it hadn't been for those filthy yids, creeping under the carpet and exercising their devilish influence, all would be well.

A few months before Mr Dalyell opened his mouth, I had been told by a well-respected figure that "the Jews have taken over Middle East policy... The entire Iraq issue has been got up by the Jews... What else can we expect with a Jew [Lord Levy] as the real Foreign Secretary... The Jews have bought Bush, just as they buy every American President... Bush is too weak and stupid to stand up to the Jews."
Is his Lordship Levy indeed a real Foreign Secretary? What do you think?
 

Nehustan

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#2
Hope you don't mind me missing the direct questions in your post, but I'll answer the one in the question. I do not define myself as English and nor believe my self to be defined by Englishness. I do have a whole heap of associations with these islands, primarily being born in Lancashire. I think I'd define myself as a Lancastrian, and if we are talking about my indigenous/aboriginal ancestors, I'd probably go with Brigantes.

Englishness just doesn't do anything for me...the question sounds like an undergraduate English degree essay title.
 
#3
It means knowing you are the best of all humans.

Where all are equal you are just that little bit more equal.

You have won the lottery of life.
 
#5
Nehustan said:
Hope you don't mind me missing the direct questions in your post, but I'll answer the one in the question. I do not define myself as English and nor believe my self to be defined by Englishness. I do have a whole heap of associations with these islands, primarily being born in Lancashire. I think I'd define myself as a Lancastrian, and if we are talking about my indigenous/aboriginal ancestors, I'd probably go with Brigantes.

Englishness just doesn't do anything for me...the question sounds like an undergraduate English degree essay title.
Nehustan, of course it is your right to identify yourself as yout wish. However, English nation, the Great English nation exists, exists during centuries. Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Normans (and even some French - Gugenots) melted to form one of the most successfull nation in the history.

So the question about 'Englishness' is not senseless.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

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#6
It means when a plane load of Englishmen land at an airport, there's still a loud whining noise coming from the plane ten minutes after the pilot has switched the engines off.

I'll be supporting Andorra BTW.
 

Nehustan

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#7
KGB_resident said:
Nehustan said:
Hope you don't mind me missing the direct questions in your post, but I'll answer the one in the question. I do not define myself as English and nor believe my self to be defined by Englishness. I do have a whole heap of associations with these islands, primarily being born in Lancashire. I think I'd define myself as a Lancastrian, and if we are talking about my indigenous/aboriginal ancestors, I'd probably go with Brigantes.

Englishness just doesn't do anything for me...the question sounds like an undergraduate English degree essay title.
Nehustan, of course it is your right to identify yourself as yout wish. However, English nation, the Great English nation exists, exists during centuries. Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Normans (and even some French - Gugenots) melted to form one of the most successfull nation in the history.

So the question about 'Englishness' is not senseless.

You're right the question is not senseless, it is correct grammatically and contextually (until you put 'an' in ;) ). However although not senseless, it will appeal to, and most likely draw response from, those with no sense ;)
 
#8
Biscuits_AB said:
It means when a plane load of Englishmen land at an airport, there's still a loud whining noise coming from the plane ten minutes after the pilot has switched the engines off.

I'll be supporting Andorra BTW.
That'll be all the jocks still on board moaning that the free bars closed then :thumright:
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#9
wet_blobby said:
Biscuits_AB said:
It means when a plane load of Englishmen land at an airport, there's still a loud whining noise coming from the plane ten minutes after the pilot has switched the engines off.

I'll be supporting Andorra BTW.
That'll be all the jocks still on board moaning that the free bars closed then :thumright:
'All the Jocks'?....on a 'plane full of Englishmen'? Are you Irish?
 

Nehustan

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#11
Actually I'm going to get all Theosophical and now describe myself as Hyperborean... :twisted:
 

Nehustan

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#12
rockape34 said:
Estron (neu tramorwr, os ydych chi'n bod yn well).
Cymro ydw i!
:thumright: :biggrin: :thumleft:
Cymru am byth :thumright:
Right all we need now is someone Cornish to pipe up with some south western Gaelic and we can push the Hun into the sea ;)

(actually I quite like Germans, but that would undermine my humourous point.)
 
#13
Nehustan said:
rockape34 said:
Estron (neu tramorwr, os ydych chi'n bod yn well).
Cymro ydw i!
:thumright: :biggrin: :thumleft:
Cymru am byth :thumright:
Right all we need now is someone Cornish to pipe up with some south western Gaelic and we can push the Hun into the sea ;)

(actually I quite like Germans, but that would undermine my humourous point.)
As a Lancastrian - you ought to know better!

The Welsh Language was spoken here Centuries before the mongrel 'English" we now speak...the saxons pushed the Welsh over to the West and became 'the English' - at no time were the Cornish ever Gaelic - (how quaint..) - they speak a directly descended form of Welsh as do the Bretons.

Back to Topic - being English to me - is having a lovely pint of Bitter Beer,not even us Welsh can beat it.. :thumleft:
 

Nehustan

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#15
Iscoed said:
Nehustan said:
rockape34 said:
Estron (neu tramorwr, os ydych chi'n bod yn well).
Cymro ydw i!
:thumright: :biggrin: :thumleft:
Cymru am byth :thumright:
Right all we need now is someone Cornish to pipe up with some south western Gaelic and we can push the Hun into the sea ;)

(actually I quite like Germans, but that would undermine my humourous point.)
As a Lancastrian - you ought to know better!

The Welsh Language was spoken here Centuries before the mongrel 'English" we now speak...the saxons pushed the Welsh over to the West and became 'the English' - at no time were the Cornish ever Gaelic - (how quaint..) - they speak a directly descended form of Welsh as do the Bretons.

Back to Topic - being English to me - is having a lovely pint of Bitter Beer,not even us Welsh can beat it.. :thumleft:
Well as you bring up little Britain (Breton, Britanny), as opposed to greater Britain, as part of the land dominated by the Franks, and previously inhabited by the Gauls, it might be interesting to point out that Wales, in the Frankish tongue, presumably the one that replaced the Gallic indigenous tongue (Gaelic), is known as 'Pay de/du Galles' (country of the Gauls). Quaint perhaps, but if one considers the pre-Roman north European Celtic society as having some synonymy with the loose tribal appellation 'Gaul' then I think its quite fair to brand all the Celtic/Gaelic dialects together. They would certainly share enough linguistic similarities to be considered a language group.

(edited to add that it would be a fair point to draw some differences between insular and 'continental' Celtic languages, as they are thought to have some major differences, I take it that's your point?)
 
#16
KGB_resident said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/03/23/do2302.xml

A few months before Mr Dalyell opened his mouth, I had been told by a well-respected figure that "the Jews have taken over Middle East policy... The entire Iraq issue has been got up by the Jews... What else can we expect with a Jew [Lord Levy] as the real Foreign Secretary... The Jews have bought Bush, just as they buy every American President... Bush is too weak and stupid to stand up to the Jews."
Is his Lordship Levy indeed a real Foreign Secretary? What do you think?[/quote]

... with regard to levy, he holds an unofficial position as bliars personal middle east envoy with the "official" foreign sec beckett having no involvement in such discussions ! ... it amazes me how someone so biased as levy, especially with all his fund raising for israel etc ( his secretary was given an honour for doing this work, for nothing more than doing her job ) could be entrusted with the responsibility of trying to bring a fair resolution of peace to that area ... can you really believe he would tell israel to abide by the dozens of UN reolutions that israel chooses to ignore (and which the usa refuse to enforce) including that saying they should go back to the 1967 borders? ... another example of bliar doing his own presidential thing without cabinet discussion or agreement, just like with iraq
 
#17
The freedom to voice any opinion I like (provided I am not inciting violence against person or property) without interference from the State.

I AM STARTING TO FEEL THAT I AM LIVING IN A FOREIGN LAND.

SLR (Not to be confused with SLR Boy).
 
#18
Biscuits_AB said:
wet_blobby said:
Biscuits_AB said:
It means when a plane load of Englishmen land at an airport, there's still a loud whining noise coming from the plane ten minutes after the pilot has switched the engines off.

I'll be supporting Andorra BTW.
That'll be all the jocks still on board moaning that the free bars closed then :thumright:
'All the Jocks'?....on a 'plane full of Englishmen'? Are you Irish?
There's bound to be a few Jocks who smuggled themselves on board to free load off the English
 
#19
That I was born and raised here, that my fathers, and their fathers, and their fathers and their fathers (etc) were born and raised here, and fought and died for England. That I intend to serve my country in its Armed Forces, and am prepared to give my life for it. That I will (hopefully, unless I get so fcuked off with the government that I emigrate to Oz) raise my own children here one day. That is some of what being English means to me
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#20
wet_blobby said:
Biscuits_AB said:
wet_blobby said:
Biscuits_AB said:
It means when a plane load of Englishmen land at an airport, there's still a loud whining noise coming from the plane ten minutes after the pilot has switched the engines off.

I'll be supporting Andorra BTW.
That'll be all the jocks still on board moaning that the free bars closed then :thumright:
'All the Jocks'?....on a 'plane full of Englishmen'? Are you Irish?
There's bound to be a few Jocks who smuggled themselves on board to free load off the English
That would've been the crew. They left when the engines were switched off.

Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnne!
 

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