What compulsory ID will be like...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by stoatman, Feb 9, 2005.

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  1. As of 1.1.05, here in the Netherlands we have had to carry ID at all times out of our houses ("Identificatieverplicht"). This means that I am breaking the law and could be fined heavily every time I go for a run, since there is nowhere in my running kit to keep an identity card.

    "They won't randomly check you", they assured us, "it'll just be used when we need to ascertain your identity for official purposes". "It'll make you safer from terrorists and organised crime and the boogeyman under your bed".

    I was skeptical, to say the least.

    Then, a friend of mine was on a train coming back from Germany. There are no border controls any more, so they don't have a right to ask for a passport at the border. However, once comfortably inside Dutch territory, some police got on the train, and demanded to see everyone's ID under the Identificatieverplicht rules. They stormed through the carriage, and roughly addressed people:

    "Show me your ID - or I'll fine you".

    Anyone without the correct ID was fined on the spot. A nice little earner for the police, and certainly easier than catching robbers.

    If anyone thinks that this could/would not happen in the UK, you need a reality check...

    Mr Clarke, he say: AUSWEIS BITTE!
  2. Why do people seem to be so concerned about carrying ID cards?
    Admittedly we're used to it in the military, but are the vociferous anti-ID card gang worried because they have something to hide?
    Seems to me that anything that can help to cut down crime/benefit fraud et al ain't such a bad idea.
    Changing tack slightly, anyone see the dichotomy between allowing 24 hr drinking and baning fags in pubs?
  3. charley, regarding the fag ban and 24 hr drinking.

    It is a bribe to the pubs and clubs industry in order to let the govt pass its no smoking bill

    the tax that the govt will lose from banning fags will be recovered from 24 hrs drinking.

    Smoke and mirrors :twisted:
  4. Or no smoke as the case may be... :wink:
  5. "It is a bribe to the pubs and clubs industry in order to let the govt pass its no smoking bill " Says Agent_Smith.

    Good Lord! How very cynical! There's me thinking we lived in a democracy....Doh!
  6. Charleyb - so you're not concerned that the police will stop you in public places and ask for your ID? They said they wouldn't do it in NL, and they have. They have said that they won't do it in the UK, but if the experience here is typical, they wll.

    If I remember correctly, this sort of thing only happens in times of war, or in nasty police states. Do you live in Britain, that once shining beacon of freedom and liberty, or the Soviet Union? After all, in the Soviet Union, if you had nothing to hide you had nothing to fear, right???
  7. I don't have a problem being stopped and asked for my ID - as long as I'm not rushing to get a pint before last orders (if the pubs are closing!) or trying to get home to give mrs Charley the good news...my opinion only. Is Stoatman more concerned that the NL cops lied?? I would be.
  8. I dont see why we need another bloody form of ID.

    We have a passport, NI card, Driving license, and umpteen other cards that can be used to prove who you are. Granted most of these (if not all) can be forged.

    If that is the case, then why not just alter the passport to include the 'super duper, baddy proof' technology that they want to include on the new cards?

    Surely that would solve a lot of problems and not mean another huge cost, fuss, database, waste of time and money and infringement of our civil liberties?

    problem solved!

    As for Stoatmans poll, i agree that if there is a chance for corruption (or just picking on easy targets) that someone somwehere will take it!
  9. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

    All new passports issued after a certain date (forgotten which) will contain "the 'super duper, baddy proof' technology that they want to include on the new cards" (biometric data). When you apply for your new passport, you'll also get an ID card which will contain the same biometric data.

    All of this will have to go on to a new database - how else will they be able to tell that I'm not genetically identical to Sean Connery?
  10. the leather goods industry are going to do alright out of this - i'm going to end up needing a bigger wallet
  11. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    None of the pieces of ID this country uses are compulsory though, nor is all the information held in one place.
  12. Why should they need to be compulsory?

    surely it is the authorities responsibility to prove who i am rather than my responsibility to prove that i am not someone else?

    If that isnt the case, then they can arrest me claiming that i am someone else and it would be upto me to prove that i am myself and not the person they think i am.

    See what i mean? :?
  13. The trouble is that all the signs are that the supposed benefits - countering DSS & immigration fraud, terrorism, crime, etc - will be delayed for years and years through incompetence or "human rights" intervention, meanwhile tax-paying law-abiding citizens will be subjected to a raft of inconveniences and extra costs. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Police & Treasury will delight in the huge extra revenue stream from honest citizens - it'll be like each one of us carrying our own personal Gatso at our own personal expense.

    Actually, I do think that ID cards should be made compulsory for anyone whilst they are drawing DSS benefits, and that "identity fraud" should be punishable up there with major offences. When those people stop drawing benefit, then they no longer have to produce ID. (I was once involved in one investigation where a couple of Nigerian "students" had about 15 DS "identities" between them and were raking in a six-figure sum in benefits. As far as i know, they were never even deported, nor was the money recouped....)
  14. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    I do see what you mean, and I am not in favour of the idea myself. However, if you were in charge of the security/getting money from almost 60M people where would you like to place the burdon of proof of identity?

    I don't like it, but I can see why the government wants to do it.
  15. No problem with that. Moral of the story is, carry your ID card. I've carried ID card(s) when running off camp for donkeys. I've also carried my bank card to draw cash and kill two birds with one stone.

    What is the problem with ID cards? A minor inconvenience and a supposed invasion of civil liberties!