Were the Government, we can do anything.

#1
No you can't. If treated unfairly the UK citizens will fight back. Without speculating on proceedings, lets just hope that a certain person commits perjury and ends up on the slammer, having his hoop stretched by Big Bubba. It is far from an unlikely scenario!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk

The case against Byers
(Filed: 30/06/2005)

Nobody should doubt the extreme gravity of the claims being made against the Government by former shareholders in Railtrack, now being heard in the High Court. The 50,000 shareholders, contemptuously dismissed as "grannies" in an internal Whitehall memo, are alleging nothing less than that ministers plotted, with malice and deceit, to bring about the downfall of the company that they owned. The ministers' purpose, according to the claimants, was to seize Railtrack's assets for a small fraction of their worth. In layman's language, the claim is that the Government - and particularly the former Transport Secretary, Stephen Byers - bullied and lied in order to steal money from pensioners and other private individuals. As the Conservatives have pointed out, if these allegations are upheld "we are looking at the biggest government fraud that this country has ever seen". Such is the importance of the case on which Mr Justice Lindsay must decide.

Whatever conclusion he may reach, however, the case has already offered many disturbing glimpses of the way in which this Government operates, its attitude to private property and its view of the proper relationship between the citizen and the state. For example, in an unchallenged statement to the court, the former rail regulator Tom Winsor wrote that the most senior civil servant in the Transport Department had met his objections to Mr Byers's behaviour with words to this effect: "We're the Government, we can do anything. We will change the law if we have to." The court has also seen an e-mail from an adviser to the Prime-Minister-in-waiting, Gordon Brown, wondering if it would be possible for the Government to "engineer" Railtrack's insolvency. What an insight into the workings of the Whitehall mind in Labour's New Britain.

We must wait to hear what Mr Byers has to say about all this, when he is summoned to the court. What is quite beyond dispute, however, is that the monstrous tangle of bureaucracy with which he replaced Railtrack has proved to be very much less efficient than the company that he grabbed from its shareholders. It swallows three times as much public money and runs an even worse service.

There are many who may believe that the case against Mr Byers should be heard not in the civil courts but at the Old Bailey. We are thinking not only of Railtrack's impoverished shareholders, but of all the wretched commuters of Britain, waiting for the long-delayed 7.42 to town.
(note: edited, with "hoop" substituted for "ring")
 
#2
Glad to see someone else is following this. The City are watching with great interest as it could 1) finally give Bozo Byers what he deserves, 2) take that smug expression of the tight fisted Fifer and 3) open up the Governments account to real scrutiny (not that shite review by the ONS).

If Byers found guilty watch Blair wait a few months and offer him another job! Hey, being guilty of financial mismanagement is almost a prerequisite for this fecking mob(Mandelson!!!)

rant over :evil:
 
#3
railtrack were crap people died because there maintance regime was less important than flogging off land for hotels. there board was made up of accountants with not a single railway person on it.
one of there first moves was to get rid of all there middle managers who knew the day to day running of a railway system because they were to expensive :evil: they got away with it only until the shit hit the fan :twisted:
much as byers is a knut this time sticking it too a so called private company who relied on massive amounts of public money to stay afloat deserves all it gets. :twisted:
shareholders tough you got profits from maggies last insane plan nobody buys a trainset from toyshop and then goes to another for a loco and another for coaches and stations :twisted:
clone isabard brunel and give him a minimi :twisted:
 
#5
Anything to do with finance is down to Gordon - he knows everything.

He is not responsible for the good of the economy (handed yo him on a plate 8 years ago), but is responsible for the scale of collapse in stock market and increase in central & local taxes and overall personal debt. His only economic miracle is that so many people believe the lie that he is prudence personified - how he must laugh every time he hears that.
 
#6
Railtrack was shite .Shareholders make money by lending there money to busines risk is involved .Railtrack deserved to die bo ho you lost your money
tough.Thats what i hate about pfi how ever rubbish the business is the tax payers will allways have to bail them out .glad the pulled the plug should have done it the second he got into n10 .
 
#7
It's one thing taking a risk and losing (by the way woody if there were no shareholders there would be no business, no jobs and no dosh to pay for anything), and a wholly different thing to have your money illegally taken from you.

I didn't have any RT shares but if I had had some I would now be calling for some of these people to be investigated by the fraud squad and the police. If they did deliberately bankrupt a company in order to seize its assets then that is a criminal offence, and should be investigated as such.
 
#8
Not got a problem with share holders just whining about a supposedly
private company that was being propped up by taxpayers money .It was
crap but taxpayers have to keep propping it up because otherwise shareholders loose out . Sod i say anyone who had money in railtrack deserved to loose it .
 
#9
Whether or not Railtrack were fiscally or technically competent, has no bearing on the notion that the risk involved in shareholding should not be increased by underhand schemes that Byers is accused of.

Woody, consider this. As shareholders are also taxpayers, it was their money propping up Railtrack too.
 
#10
The fact is that it is alleged that HM Govt. bankrupted a company for governmental gain. It doesn't matter if it was a train, plane or automobile company. If it is found that they did do what is alleged then surely the criminal offences of fraud and theft have been committed.
 
#11
Everyone above has a fair point, which just proves one thing: the huge scale of this issue. Alleged lies (I'm being generous) over WMD is one thing, but plotting the downfall of a company to re-nationalise it's assets in what is purported to be a free-market, advanced democratic country?? This is the sort of government behaviour which, if you look back through your history books usually marks the beginning of a dictatorial underhand communist/socialist government (Russia early 1910s, China 1930s-1950s).

Is this marking the first beginnings of a dictatorial underhand socialist government?! Or have we already begun to see signs of that?
 
#13
Hey, being guilty of financial mismanagement is almost a prerequisite for this fecking mob(Mandelson!!!)

Archer, Jeffrey what was his number in the Nick?
 
#14
A bit off topic, but another example of government arrogance is the current benefit fraud ad. Has the really quite frightening tagline;

"WE'RE ON YOUR CASE"

(or similar) after showing some very sinister scenes of government surveillance. Now I know benefit fraud is a bad thing but this seems to be yet another way (after ID cards, topic done to death elsewhere but I won't be having one) in which the current Government is changing its relationship with the Subjects of HM.

Remember these are the people who are merging the Inland Revenue with HM Customs & Excise so the former get the powers of the latter (virtually unlimited and beyond those of the Police) to raid premises and act in pursuit of a potential crime.

Who next to get these powers? The bunch of inadequates working for councils in various "prevention" or "enforcement" branches (eg Westminster: sample quote from the Littering Prevention Officer, speaking with many years of Police service, "I deduce this rubbish has been left by an Arab type because there is an Arab Newspaper in it and no Englishman would read one of those". He then went on to say "I have better than proof, I have a hunch". Sherlock Holmes and Habeaus Corpus eat your heart out).
 
#16
CaptainPlume said:
A bit off topic, but another example of government arrogance is the current benefit fraud ad. Has the really quite frightening tagline;

"WE'RE ON YOUR CASE"

(or similar) after showing some very sinister scenes of government surveillance. Now I know benefit fraud is a bad thing but this seems to be yet another way (after ID cards, topic done to death elsewhere but I won't be having one) in which the current Government is changing its relationship with the Subjects of HM.

Remember these are the people who are merging the Inland Revenue with HM Customs & Excise so the former get the powers of the latter (virtually unlimited and beyond those of the Police) to raid premises and act in pursuit of a potential crime.

Who next to get these powers? The bunch of inadequates working for councils in various "prevention" or "enforcement" branches (eg Westminster: sample quote from the Littering Prevention Officer, speaking with many years of Police service, "I deduce this rubbish has been left by an Arab type because there is an Arab Newspaper in it and no Englishman would read one of those". He then went on to say "I have better than proof, I have a hunch". Sherlock Holmes and Habeaus Corpus eat your heart out).
Don't worry - I work for HM Customs and Revenue. There is too much infighting and Fujitsu f*ck-ups for anyone to have to worry about us flexing our (now atrophied) muscle.

As for the thread I have a sickening feeling that Byers et al will slither out of this one again. "Things can only get better!!"
 
#17
Zofo said:
The fact is that it is alleged that HM Govt. bankrupted a company for governmental gain. It doesn't matter if it was a train, plane or automobile company. If it is found that they did do what is alleged then surely the criminal offences of fraud and theft have been committed.
Wouldn't that actually apply to EVERYTHING Phoney Tony and his gobment do?

MsG
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
brighton hippy said:
railtrack were crap people died because there maintance regime was less important than flogging off land for hotels. there board was made up of accountants with not a single railway person on it.
one of there first moves was to get rid of all there middle managers who knew the day to day running of a railway system because they were to expensive :evil: they got away with it only until the s*** hit the fan :twisted:
much as byers is a knut this time sticking it too a so called private company who relied on massive amounts of public money to stay afloat deserves all it gets. :twisted:
shareholders tough you got profits from maggies last insane plan nobody buys a trainset from toyshop and then goes to another for a loco and another for coaches and stations :twisted:
clone isabard brunel and give him a minimi :twisted:
Having been on the inside of the assylum whilst all this was happening I agree with the Hippy from Queersville! The shareholders were gambling a small investment in comparisom yet expecting the Govt to bail out the knackers when it went wrong. I hate the way that the shareholders were divided then had their noses rubbed in it. The Govt bought off the institutional investors and chose to stiff the saps who put their pensions where the Financial advisers told them too! What should be dragged through open court is the financial shenanigans that allowed the Beardie C*NT BR*nson to filch more money from the taxpayer every time a meeting was held with his B*M boy pal at the SRA. The ORR was shafted over this and unfairly so! Another neu arbeit victim. Come back Tom W*nsor. What happened to shareholders paying into the company when times were hard instead of robbing the treasury!

As for quote "There is too much infighting and Fujitsu f*ck-ups " I have seen those gimps and they are worse than useless, must be govt appointed!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
brighton hippy said:
ha ha the barstards lost sorry if you thought railtrack was a worthwhile investament I belive the MOD have a project they want to invest in
Now you should know i would only invest in breweries, I think all shares are a form of gambling and I'd rather spend my stake money in the beer tent, or hadnt you noticed!
 

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