Were all responsible says UK Muslim leader

#1
In news that is shure to delight the more rabid elements of the site (you know who you are - Team Wiki), it seems that the UK Muslim community has at least recognised that the essential elements of success in mitigating the causes and precursor activities for terror lie in their own hands:

'ROOT OUT THE EXTREMISTS'

The Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain has visited community leaders in Leeds saying he wanted to take "concrete steps" to ensure an atrocity like the London bombings never happened again.

Sir Iqbal Sacranie told a meeting of Islamic and community group leaders in the city: "We are all responsible for it in a way because we have been talking about the fact there are elements within the community who perhaps are carrying out the rhetoric and message of hate and very little has been done.

"The community across the country condemns such activities but beyond that, what have we been doing?"

Sir Iqbal said he and other members of the council were in Leeds to listen rather than make lengthy statements about what has to happen next.

He said he had already spoken to a number of groups in the city adding: "They are all in a state of shock, as we all are."

Sir Iqbal listened as representatives of a range of Muslim and other groups gave their views at the Baab-ul-Ilm Centre, in Shadwell.

He told the meeting to expect a statement later from Islamic scholars from across Britain at the London Central Mosque which was "so powerful and so strong" it would leave no-one in any doubt about the Muslim communities attitudes to atrocities such as the London bombings.

He said: "That statement is going to re-define the position about what Islam has to say about acts of atrocity, acts of murder and criminality."

Asked if he supported the call for a public inquiry on how the bombings happened he said it was too early to say and the police should be left to get on with their investigations at this time.

Sir Iqbal later left the centre to meet groups in the Beeston area of the city and will later pray at the Leeds Grand Mosque before leaving for the meeting of scholars in London.
Words are fine (indeed expected) but I have a horrible feeeling that if (when?) something like this happens again, and those repsonsible come from the same community, our Muslim community may find those rabid elements taking it upon themselves to 're-define the position'.

The story is here.
 
#2
I've already noted that quite a few Muslim clerics, and not necessarily those who you'd automatically think of as being "radical" are attempting to ditance themselves to some degree from the MCB which is seen as being rather to close to the current Government.

It also pains me I must say to note that the majority of those "pundits" I've seen interviewed from the Islamic community have qualified their condemnations of the attacks with "ifs", "buts" and "whatabouts". This is not a good thing.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#3
I find too many 'its terrible but..... ' from the Muslim community for my tastes, bit like the Catholic Church in NI. I listed to a couple of lads who knew one of the bombers saying 'yes it was terrible but why all the concentration on London when thousands of our Muslim brothers are being killed in Iraq anmd Afghanistan?' They seem to have failed to notice that the Muslim Brothers (and sisters and children- but perhaps they don't count) are being murdered by Muslim brothers.

They keep saying it not Islam to commit suicide and murder innocents. Well if that is so why is it that it seems to be a Muslim problem all over world?

Sir Iqbal says they are going to 'redefine' thier position on atrocities. Well why the hell haven't tthye done that before - there have been plenty of atrocities over the last few years.

I remember the teacher and children dancing in celebration after 9/11. It certainly suggested that there is a part of the community that gives tacit support and approval to atrocities.

That said I know that the vaste majority of Muslims just want to get on with life like the rest of us.
 
#4
I am getting quite concerned with the way the bombers are starting to be portrayed as innocent victims of 'brainwashing' by Islamic commentators and the media. Many saying things along the lines of 'He was a wonderful peaceful man and wouldn't hurt anyone', really? If one person did this then I could accept that possibly this was the case, but to have 4 people from such a small geographic area so indoctinated by hate then, I'm sorry to say, they are just cold blooded murderers.
 
#5
Sir Iqbal siad on the lunch time news that "the police & security forces had to take some of the blame" (for the atrocity), it seems that "we're all responsible" is actually muslim speak for "nothing to do with us Guv"

What I hear on TV from the muslims is:

1. Islam is peaceful & tolerant.

So the suicide bombers were merely demostrating peace ?

2. The muslims who did this are sort of not really muslims and anyway they are Pakistanis.

Er...well a muslim is a muslim is a muslim

3. We're British first ain't we me old mate, apple and pears, innit.

We're Brits first as from just after the bombs went off

4. Us muslims are the victims.

No, the families of the 54 dead and 700 injured are the victims

5. We didn't know anything about muslims like Hook.

I didn't realise that mass blindness and deafness had struck down the muslims of the UK

edited for crap speelin
 
#6
5. We didn't know anything about muslims like Hook.

I didn't realise that mass blindness and deafness had struck down the muslims of the UK
They do. Some are concerned , and have stated their fears prior to this atrocity , most preferred to bury their heads in the sand.

There is too much 'qualification' of this atrocity , especially by Pakistani youth, and not enough outright condemnation by Imams and Community leaders for a variety of reasons , including not wishing to rock the boat, intimidation by the more militant sections of their community (Finsbury Park et al ) and the 'We're all victims here , our community has been persecuted longtime'

There is a definite lurch towards 'Have your cake and eat it' by Islamic religous leaders.

One of the problems that some religous leaders hereabouts point out, is the youth are just not attending the Mosques the way they used to. I would suggest , that's because like youth anywhere , it bores them because the Mosque doesn't provide for what they want, whatever that is.

I note with interest , the MCGB and others are travelling to Leeds to show 'solidarity'. Oh, that's good. How about travel to Leeds, and bang on a few doors to get the SP on what is really going on? Oh I forgot , "We are all responsible" , therefore no need.

Were these 4 murdering cretins an 'Al-quaeda' cell , or 4 brainwashed 'yoofs'? Who cares? The fact is , they killed people , and instead of hand-wringing and mealy-mouthed platitudes and excuses, the Leaders of Muslim communites in the UK need to be getting in amongst their people , and finding out if there is a likelihood of it recurring.

The media can play their part, by keeping up the pressure on leaders to use their networks to identfy individuals and groups who may be a danger to the UK public at large.

The Religous, Community leaders and people of standing in this community need to realise , that their withdrawl , be it deliberate or otherwise from engaging with the wider British public in the past , has led to this dreadful situation.

It is far, far easier to kill 'Foreigners' than people you feel a common tie with.
 
#7
PartTimePongo said:
There is too much 'qualification' of this atrocity , especially by Pakistani youth, and not enough outright condemnation by Imams and Community leaders for a variety of reasons...
Ab-so-bloody-lutely.

Time to stand up and be counted - if that's not over-stressing the point too much.
 
#8
armourer said:
Sir Iqbal siad on the lunch time news that "the police & security forces had to take some of the blame" (for the atrocity), it seems that "we're all responsible" is actually muslim speak for "nothing to do with us Guv"

What I hear on TV from the muslims is:

1. Islam is peaceful & tolerant.

So the suicide bombers were merely demostrating peace ?

2. The muslims who did this are sort of not really muslims and anyway they are Pakistanis.

Er...well a muslim is a muslim is a muslim

3. We're British first ain't we me old mate, apple and pears, innit.

We're Brits first as from just after the bombs went off

4. Us muslims are the victims.

No, the families of the 54 dead and 700 injured are the victims

5. We didn't know anything about muslims like Hook.

I didn't realise that mass blindness and deafness had struck down the muslims of the UK

edited for crap speelin
Come one armourer. Let's not tar them all with the same brush.
It's just as bad as calling all irish catholics members of the IRA, or the proddies as members of the UVF/UDA etc.

There have always been bad apples in every community, this will never change so lets not tar them all.

Lets try and put pressure on the community as a whole to deal with the problem head on instead of pandering to all the PC bullshit i see in the media.
 
#9
I saw an interview on the BBC yesterday morning with a group of Muslim youths from Leeds.

They all stressed how awful the bombings in London were and how theses acts are the complete opposite of what Islam is all about...
But, then started asking why the BBC wasn't asking them about their muslim brothers and sisters who were dying in Afghanistan and Iraq.

They were also highly critical of our involvement in these countries, saying 'The US and 'The English' (?) should get out' and accused the US and 'The English' of Double standards.
They then stressed how 'British' they were.

The most vocal of the group seemed to be about to say something along the lines of 'it's bad news, but you deserved it'...and then decided better of it.

What struck me, and worried me the most about this; was the evidence that these supposedly moderate muslims (so said the BBC reporter at the beginning of the interview) seemed to hold two wildly opposing views at the same time on where they stand on terrorism and on their loyalty to Britain....and didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with that.

To be honest. Based on what I saw there, I think this countries in huge trouble.
 
#10
Agent_Smith said:
armourer said:
Sir Iqbal siad on the lunch time news that "the police & security forces had to take some of the blame" (for the atrocity), it seems that "we're all responsible" is actually muslim speak for "nothing to do with us Guv"

What I hear on TV from the muslims is:

1. Islam is peaceful & tolerant.

So the suicide bombers were merely demostrating peace ?

2. The muslims who did this are sort of not really muslims and anyway they are Pakistanis.

Er...well a muslim is a muslim is a muslim

3. We're British first ain't we me old mate, apple and pears, innit.

We're Brits first as from just after the bombs went off

4. Us muslims are the victims.

No, the families of the 54 dead and 700 injured are the victims

5. We didn't know anything about muslims like Hook.

I didn't realise that mass blindness and deafness had struck down the muslims of the UK

edited for crap speelin
Come one armourer. Let's not tar them all with the same brush.
It's just as bad as calling all irish catholics members of the IRA, or the proddies as members of the UVF/UDA etc.

There have always been bad apples in every community, this will never change so lets not tar them all.

Lets try and put pressure on the community as a whole to deal with the problem head on instead of pandering to all the PC bullshit i see in the media.
I'm well aware that all muslims in the UK are not terrorists, I'm stating my view regards what I have heard muslims say on TV over the last few days.
 
#11
PtP - what you said!!

I also wonder exactly how representative the MCB is of 'all' muslims in the UK? Speaking just for the top few or for all? Watched Sir Iqbal being assualted by 'radicals' on the BBC news only a few days after the bombing so somehow don't think he represents all.

I'm C of E but when the old archbish starts bumping his gums I tend to think he's a bit of a prat and doesn't reflect my views. I suspect MCB rather similar?
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#12
Perhaps these comments are actually telling us that a significant part of the problem is media reporting of what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Most of the UK media have been relentlessly negative about our involvement in the Middle East, and I suspect it is only the scale of last week's atrocity that has prevented widespread 'I told you so'ing' (a la Galloway et al) from the BBC, the Grauniad and other whited sepulchres of the leftist intelligentsia. I would think most British civilians have a very skewed idea about conditions in Iraq, who's killing who and so forth; and it's highly likely that many members of the Muslim community take the already skewed and innaccurate reports they read, hear and see in the media, and apply their own cultural and political filters to them. The BBC insists on validating terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan by calling them 'militants', 'insurgents' and 'the resistance' as if the Coalition are genuinely there as oppressors, rather than liberators from oppression, however misguided the thought processes which got us there were. This misleading informational backdrop makes it considerably easier for charismatic Islamists to do their work.

I think that if you were a moderately well educated Muslim, with a sense of cultural, religious and ethnic pride - all of which are entirely legitimate - but your knowledge of what is going on in, for example, Palestine is entirely informed by Orla Guerin on the BBC, or Robert Fisk in the Independent, you might well develop a strong sense of outrage against the US and its allies, and that might well make you more accepting of indoctrination by Islamist extremists.

So should we shoot the messengers? Obviously not, but you have to wonder about the concept of balanced reporting, as espoused by the BBC and the UK 'broadsheets' when they are employing such obviously politically motivated journalists to report on such sensitive matters; and when their news agendas are largely informed by sensationalist reports of inevitable Coalition military failures rather than the considerably greater numbers of success stories.
 
#14
If Tony Blair stood up and made a statement on "our behalf" then I suspect we would all have a fairly cynical response. we would reason that, well he doesn't represent all of our points of view, he is just one flavour of opinion and he has previously said quite opposite things. So, we should view sir Iqbal's statements with a similar degree of perspective.

The MCGB is not viewed as speaking for all muslims, despite its position as mouthpiece for UK muslims. The majority of extremists actually look on the MCGB as heretic at best and as fellow-travellers with the Western powers. Regrettably the warm feelings generated by such positive statements need to be set in the context of the multiplicity of (counter) views expressed by a variety of Islamic speakers in the various media over the past week.

If we had a fiver for every condemnation of PIRA/INLA by the Archbishop of Armagh, then we would be very comfortably off but we would not have moved the war on Irish repulicanism forward an iota. This is sadly likely to be the result of these statements too, while the Islamic religion in the Uk remains as diversely focussed as it is.
 

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