Well done Paxo

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Sixty, Jan 22, 2007.

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  1. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    A very well done to Jeremy Paxman who just skewered the reprehensible Twigg on Newsnight regarding wounded soldiers.
  2. Have to agree with Sixty. But that Pratt Twigg was not listening at all. He has his head up his ar*e and did not answer any direct question, simply put the usual spin on his answers.
  3. Yes, but what is the matter with the General?
    Why does he agree that the population can't sustain some sort of military hospital system?

    Since the end of the cold war the British Army has still prepared for war and one of the preparations surely is dealing with casualties.

    It takes years to develop a corp of medics and one can keep them up to speed if there is any spare capacity by taking some of the weight off NHS hospitals waiting lists. Woolwich used to take civvies and the ones I've met really thought the military hospitals were more cheerful and the food was better.

    Surely a dedicated military hospital could be used both ways, in peace look after civvies if there is spare beds then segue into war mode as and when necessary.

    Apart from everything we have broken a covenant with the serving man and woman that began in the Crimea with Florence Nightingale.
    A hundred years ago they had a military hospital at Millbank in London where injured soldiers could be taken to from Waterloo station.
    They sold it to the Tate Gallery - they hang Turners pictures where once beds for soldiers were.

    William Turner who left his paintings to the nation would not have been best pleased that of all the places in the country they could have found to hang his pictures they had to shove a soldiers hospital out of the way.

    Of course Milbank hospital closed over 30 years ago but how useful it would be now?
  4. I have not seen this interview but I assume yet another Senior Officer has sored top marks in his next confidential at the exspense of Tom, Tom Broken and Bloody.
    Disgraceful in a Politician Mess Webely time for serving Officer.
  5. Hello Newsnight.

    Good to see you here.

    I thought Paxman went lightly on Twigg who was so poor it beggared belief.

    This situation is a disgrace and deserves to be kept in the public eye. Well done.
  6. I have a suspicion that this is really a tail shaking the dog situation...

    If you listen carefully to what Twigg and the General were saying, the core of the argument was that there were not enough bodies to keep the MEDICS entertained, not to keep the HOSPITALS filled.

    I get the impression that the main argument to get rid of the military hospitals is coming from the RAMC clinicians. The argument being that they are not getting sufficient access to "interesting cases" to climb whatever medical greasy pole they need to get up to move on in the medical world. When you align the personal ambitions of the doctors with the goals of the bean counters, is it any surprise that the needs of the military patient come fairly far down the priorities..

    Given that the current trend is not to let any senior medic out without a grownup to look after them, and that most field hospitals are run by ex teeth arm types, is it any wonder that this is the outcome?




    I think the return of the Military General Hospital is probably unlikely unless there is a REALLY big punch up..

    What we do need however is some provision for better specialist convalesant or rehab facilities. Lets face it if you are in intensive care with a tube up your arrse you are probably not really bothered where you are. It's afterwords when you are in recovery when you need your mates around you.

    By extending and building up MRS's in certain garrisons to take on this task rather than running them down to "group practice" size could be an option.

    Any medics around to comment?
  7. Wasn't surprised to see he voted against the Iraq war in 2003.
  8. In fairness, back in the early 80s - when MRSA type infections of complicated fractures seemed to be automatic in Mil Hosps, and one grew accustomed to all but the most straightforward cases being, it seemed, misdiagnosed - many of us were certain that the only way for soldiers to get competent medical treatment was to get it in the NHS, from civvie doctors who had seen a thing or two beyond 18yr olds with bumps'n'bruises, and their wives'n'kids ailments.

    So in a sense, the General would be right: but only as long as the wounded get the kind of treatment that is appropriate to the wounds they have received.

    There is another bit to this, though, which is that soldiers clearly feel that being treated as ordinary NHS patients is insufficient recognition of the circumstances under which they were operatiing at the point that they were wounded: and that is about morale more than it is about medicine.

    I didn't see Newsnight yet, so I can't jduge, the show, but it seems to me that the failures of the existing system are that:

    a) If wounded soldiers get treated in civi wards it's bad for morale and security, and possibly mental health (Tone was s'posed to have sorted this)

    b.) Damaged soldiers who are dependent on NHS aftercare get lost in the general admin feckup that is the NHS - in parts of the country anyway - and their condition never improves, or even deteriorates. Bad on all counts.

    The last is the worst of all, I think:-

    c.) TA soldiers go the sandbox, get wounded, traumatised, hospitalised and discharged to the NHS lottery (see b, above), and are thereafter ignored by the CoC, 'cos they're "off-duty" and are therefore "civvies".

    Each of these three is enough to undermine soldiers confidence in the CoC, and in their Nation.

    If all 3 are not resolved, the situation is unacceptable. If the CoC and Govt are using spin to conceal failure on any of these counts, they should not get away with it.
  9. Gents do Military units still have Sick Parade with Military Doctors or does Tom waltz off down to his local GP after making an appointment ?
  10. So now we have official JOURNALIST posters on the site as well as all the lurkers?

  11. Get a grip - journos have been posting on this site for ages, amny of them (like micksmith of the Times) quite openly.

    jonwilly defintiely ISN'T one of them - check his profile.

    Nor has it killed (or wounded) ARRSE.
  12. How long before we see a new member called
    "Prime Minister's Delivery Unit" ??

    Perhaps the Treasury might join and start encouraging us to switch off unnecessary lights, turn the heating down and wear a wooly pully in the accommodation?
    Hang on, weren't pullovers taken as a C95 saving measure?
  13. Wonjilly jurno, not read many of my posts has he ?
    A product of the UK education system of the 50s & 60s.
  14. A very good point, and perhaps an in-house soldiers welfare organisation that can get things moving for those who need help instead of relying on charities. If necessary by passing local commanders to get things done.