Welbeck to Close

#62
I think it is extremely short-sighted and getting out of the PPP will cost more money in the long run. Of course the consortium has a lot recent deals with the MOD so I bet there will be some 'I scratch your back, you scratch mine' - very unethical. If you care about trying to save Welbeck, you can sign the petition on the UK parliament website
Link below:
Petition: Stop the closure of Welbeck Defence sixth form college
Please sign to make a difference.
 
#63
I think it is extremely short-sighted and getting out of the PPP will cost more money in the long run. Of course the consortium has a lot recent deals with the MOD so I bet there will be some 'I scratch your back, you scratch mine' - very unethical. If you care about trying to save Welbeck, you can sign the petition on the UK parliament website
Link below:
Petition: Stop the closure of Welbeck Defence sixth form college
Please sign to make a difference.
Ain't gonna happen, chap.

The bottom line is that it does not return value for money: further, I believe (sadly) that your petition is doomed to whither on the vine as there are not 100 000 people who GAF.
 
#66
I was in the URNU at university and we shared the same training facilities and drill night as the DTUS (the scheme welbexians have to do, whilst at uni). I got to know some of them quite well. Several decided to leave pay off their bursary and earn more on civvie street, 1 failed sandhurst and ended up transferring to become a ammunications technician. Alot of the good ones who went to Sandhurst ended up choosing infantry/armoured regiments instead. One of the guys who did make it says that according to the figures, up to a third never make it past the Commissioning course. It seems like in many cases, Welbeck isn't really serving it's purpose in producing technically minded officers....
 
#67
I can't join the angst-ridden above and accordingly won't be elbowing my way onto the outrage bus over this news.
Bob the Builder hits the nails mostly on the head in his observation about the link between Welbeck and the old RMCS. Once the latter had gone, the former's raison d'etre rather disappeared.

About half my platoon at Sandhurst were Welbexians and, almost to a boy (for that is what they were) they were absolute shockers. They were 'selected' at or around the age of 15 as suitable to be British Army officers. Sadly, by the time they'd passed a few A levels, at 18 years of age, few of them were. They didn't attend Westbury and even the DS treated them as backdoor entrants. They were 'eased' through SMC - the phrase, 'it's alright Sir, he's a Welbexian' was often to be heard muttered by the CSgts - and then went straight to Shrivenham for a three year degree course. They then had to do their Special to Arm training before finally joining a regular unit, after nearly six years of 'investment' by the taxpayer.

Every now and then one would escape the conveyor belt and be allowed to join the Infantry - again, we had one in my battalion during my time; barely able to pass water unassisted, let alone RCB. I know of another who was too thick to complete his Shrivenham degree; he is now a Brigadier in the Air Corps!

My main worry about the closing of Welbeck is just how badly the disposal of the new site will be managed by the MoD and at what cost?
 
#68
Oh dear Queensman - all these years and you still have that chip on your shoulder about Welbeck. I cannot comment on the SMC courses having been commissioned after 2 years at RMAS but I do wonder how half of your platoon were from Welbeck?

As to your point about the back door avoiding Westbury is concerned, I seem to recall a statistic reflecting circa 12 applicants per Welbeck application - tough odds. Truth is that there were good and bad from all modes of entry and it would be hoped that maturity would assist you overcoming your bitterness about Welbexians.

BTW, where did you finish in the Order of Merit or was that dropped when you were there?
 
#69
It does amaze me that no one seems to be questioning what we’re doing wrong at Welbeck, and more importantly what we can do to make it value for money? It’s almost as if someone is saying that there’s no value in technically minded Officers, or soldiers.
 
#74
Having had some close involvement with a DTUS Unit and DSFC, it comes as no surprise to learn DSFC/DTUS is closing. A bastard child of 4 Services, all of whom wanted the credit for any success but unwilling to scope, fund or deliver any improvements, passing the buck between all 4 Services until any enthusiasm for improvement was lost.

Any military minded teenager (stand fast, the RAF) who signed up was swiftly disabused of any notion of a military lifestyle. A derisory CCF programme, delivered by an RAF Engineering Officer who had all the military skills and bearing of a bin bag full of yogurt, supplemented by civilian teachers in a CCF role (some great, most adequate) led to a sub par experience for those who had specifically signed up for a military style education. Most of the students I spoke with opined that they would have been better off staying at home and remaining in their local Cadet unit. Many of them had progressed well in that environment.

Fast forward on two years and they’d arrive at a DTUS unit that wasn’t scaled for weapons, ammunition and specifically forbidden to teach anything from CMS(R) or Service Equivalent, leading to 3 years of dreary Training Programmes full of wooly subjects such as “PlanEx” or “Media Handling”

Luckily, AT and PT were in plentiful supply to fill the gap, but in the main, I observed many OCdts simply not engaging with the poor levels of training or simply looking wistfully out the window at the local UOTC who were, for example, learning GPMG drills. Again, it’s apocryphal, but I was told several OCdts would additionally attending local UOTCs, TA (as was) or Cadet units simply to try and become “current and competent” in core military skills.

Ultimately, younger people are engaged and enthused by the thought of productive military service and the robustness decent training brings leads to robustness in the fields of leadership and academia.

So there are probably many good reasons why the scheme is closing, but ultimately, it’s because since going Quad Service, it simply wasn’t military enough.
 
#75
And for which I firmly blame the Army. The RN only version, and then RN/RAF (which lasted a year or so?) were top notch outputs. The Mids at Thunderer Sqn (the "original" DTUS) routinely did "hard engineering" projects, as well as more Common RN training (sea safety, first aid, fire fighting), and compulsory attachments at sea and in dockyards during summer holidays.

This reeks of the Army demanding "in", changing everything to have a JArmy output, and losing interest after a while. I'd also say similar about ACSC - which Carter had the temerity to say was "too Joint"...
 
#76
And for which I firmly blame the Army. The RN only version, and then RN/RAF (which lasted a year or so?) were top notch outputs. The Mids at Thunderer Sqn (the "original" DTUS) routinely did "hard engineering" projects, as well as more Common RN training (sea safety, first aid, fire fighting), and compulsory attachments at sea and in dockyards during summer holidays.

This reeks of the Army demanding "in", changing everything to have a JArmy output, and losing interest after a while. I'd also say similar about ACSC - which Carter had the temerity to say was "too Joint"...
I don’t disagree. I also seem to recall Thunderer Sqn were well supplemented with (Senior Upper Yardsmen?) which helped bring real Navy experience to bear, which seems crucial in helping Mids/OCdts understand the wider Navy.

Ho hum.

(It would delight me to see the RN get all defiant and keep Thunderer Sqn open to show the other Services how it should have been done!)
 
#77
Ironically, we removed the UYs from Thunderer when it went Purple.

But yes, the UY/SUY cadre added a sense of realism.
 
#79
No2 son went through Welbeck in the days when it was still in the Abbey..

Although it was the right thing for him to do at the time, the whole thing was a bit of a catalogue of missed opportunities. The place was run like a minor public school with frankly pretty poor academic staff. Given that the intake was composed of folk who actually wanted to be there, they were treated in a pretty shoddy fashion by the staff, who came across as weak and two dimensional.

The CCF should have been the best in the country, given the context. It wasn't! In the two years he was there, there was no shooting done of any sort. The CCF was run by an ancient LE Corps Major who had a host of domestic and health problems and was clearly in a parking orbit. Lots of sexy AT equipment, such as climbing walls, but never used. I got my lad a Fam visit to 11 EOD which kept him going, but most of the management and leadership was of the bentwood chair and whip variety..!

What it did do however was cement a group of individuals together in a bond of friendship forged through adversity!
 
#80
No2 son went through Welbeck in the days when it was still in the Abbey..

Although it was the right thing for him to do at the time, the whole thing was a bit of a catalogue of missed opportunities. The place was run like a minor public school with frankly pretty poor academic staff. Given that the intake was composed of folk who actually wanted to be there, they were treated in a pretty shoddy fashion by the staff, who came across as weak and two dimensional.

The CCF should have been the best in the country, given the context. It wasn't! In the two years he was there, there was no shooting done of any sort. The CCF was run by an ancient LE Corps Major who had a host of domestic and health problems and was clearly in a parking orbit. Lots of sexy AT equipment, such as climbing walls, but never used. I got my lad a Fam visit to 11 EOD which kept him going, but most of the management and leadership was of the bentwood chair and whip variety..!

What it did do however was cement a group of individuals together in a bond of friendship forged through adversity!
It’s like everything I’ve ever seen in the MOD. Because it isn’t driven by making money it pays peanuts and attracts cretins. Since all IT industry left the Dorset coast we’ve found it increasingly difficult to entice decent MOD CS instructors. This is made worse by the constant dumbing down of training making it even less attractive to SMEs who want a challenge. I’m pretty sure it’s the same everywhere. Bury head in sand, refuse to invest then get rid.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Health and Fitness 1
happy_as_a_hat Officers 0
B Health and Fitness 5

Similar threads


Latest Threads

Top