Weight, Paper, L85

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by stoatman, Feb 10, 2005.

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  1. I'm sure this has been done to death already on here many times, but you should always flog a dead horse at least once more, for good measure!

    world.guns.ru's take on the L85 series:


  2. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

  3. I've just discovered a bullpup with worse ergonomics than the L85 - the Ukrainian Vepr:


    Take an AK74, lose the stock, add a pistol grip, put the cocking handle on the left hand side of the receiver. It all looks good until you realise that the safety catch / fire selector is in the same place - it's that flappy lever on the right hand side behind the magazine. So, to return enemy fire you will have to reach under the butt, pull the lever down to the right setting, and then open fire...
  4. Wasn't the SA80 tested by NATO and found to be utter shite?

    Gotta love those politicians, always putting the squaddies safety before all else. :roll:
  5. not realy shite, I have used the SLR and the SA80 and I loved the SLR, but my opperational weapon(s) were SA80, LSW and the GPMG... but if you look deeper into the origins of the SA80 its all about the rounds...

    NATO standard is 5.56mm which is the same as the Armalite and the Famas, so when the yanks have a blue on blue and kill all thier mates we can rob thier rounds...

    Also when the french drop thier beloved FAMAS and run away we can have thier ammo off too..

    As for the bullup... piece of shite with wierd sized rounds... damn you!!! ukranian barst00ls
  6. And the award for the longest quote on ARRSE goes to.......Stoatman
  7. :p And second prize goes to BLOODY_TIPRAT for repeating it in full! :lol:
  8. And the bad news is, just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true. You've obviously got an axe to grind, but the blokes who've deployed with it seem impressed with the reliability of the A2

    That page has been there for a couple of years; it's got the opinions of a Russian reserve Lieutenant who's never fired it, and one Brit punter who's got an axe to grind. Wow. For a credibility test, look at its reporting that SA80 may be replaced in 2006.......

    Said Russian has co-authored a book on rifles; his co-author (Tony Williams) also has a site which appears to be slightly better researched. And includes a piece by someone who's actually used the rifle on operations.

    Try: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm
  9. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Gravelbelly, that was an interesting link, on first reading it seems quite even handed.

    It supports one of my major gripes with the SA80 - the lack of ambidexterity of the 'rifle.' I may be a little old fashioned but personally prefer to present as small a silhouette as possible to my opponent, something denied me by this particular design.
    But it seems that people are committed to issuing infantrymen accross the globe with bullpups - maybe this is the new levelling factor.

    It says that the Israeli bullpup, the Tavor, had been adopted by the IDF although I've yet to see one in service, but they also adopted a home grown adapation of the AK some years ago - when was the last time we saw a Galil in the hands of an IDF soldier ?

    This sounds pretty good, but am I to believe that they've fired three milion rds through one rifle ? They must really think I'm solid !

    The last time a RM had confidence in his wpn was on Op Corporate ? This doesn't mean the A2 is good, it only means that it gives them more confidence than the A1 - or other wpns they may have been issued, and those are not mentioned,

    Interesting, they're now either saying that they created the 'person' or that they can shrug off stoppages as the fault of the individual. I've always been chuffed with Royal's wpn skills

    Muzzle cap - easily fixed.
    Weapon cover ? Does this indicate that there are too many ingress points ? How many soldiers do you know that have made covers from bandoliers ?
    If the wpn had been properly designed it wouldn't need these stopgap solutions.

    Safety catch of more resilient material - it was made of steel until some tw@ decided that it might be knocked off if the wpn was thrown down onto the ground - that happens all the time. Prior to that there was a thumb safety - much more ergonomic.
    The pamphlet seems to have been addressed.

    The report on the M4 stated that of the troops concerned 35% added barber brushes and 24% added dental picks to their cleaning kits. How many real sldrs only use the issue SA80 cleaning kit......?

    In the same septic report they said that of stoppages 20% reported double feeding, 15% reported feeding jams and 13% reported that feeding problems were due to magazines. I have yet to encounter any weapon of the AR15/M16 series that has had double feeds that were not directly due to a magazine, so of all stoppages 33% were due to kak mags. Since that particular report came out, the DoD have issued new followers which has resolved the problem.

    Anyway back to the question of the A2.
    There are so many users that say it's wonderful - they can't all be wrong...... or do they have anything to compare it to ?

    In the end we all know the whole question is political, and I await with interest the MP that sticks his neck out and decides to issue the Army with something better & cheaper.
  10. So are you not keen on the L85 then Cuts? :D

    This topic has been done to death.... but my main argument is still the ability to get a shot on the target at a range farther than 30m

    The SLR was a feirsome cannon, I consider myself to be a good shot but I could never gaurantee to hit everytime at everything more than 200m.... thats on the range, not when the pressure is on and breathing is heavy and wind is up....

    the SA80 however turned the most cacky shots in the Squadron semi accurate, reliable shots and 8 times out of ten everyone could hit a target at 3 / 400metres plus.

    I know its had its problems, but I'm sure there would have been outrage in the press / media if the lads in the sandpit had suffered as a result.

    There must some infanteers out there that had to use the rifle in anger over the past two years, any of them care to comment?

    We can accuse the design and manufacture as tinny and of poor quality... thats true of just about any service rifle in circulation.... maybe less the H&K family...

    I agree with the inability to adopt a fire position from the left shoulder... maybe a better solution would be execute left handed people, they are generally disabled and ginger anyway :D
  11. Crosspost from carbine thread:

  13. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Fully agree !

  14. It wouldn't surprise me to see no change in the near future.
    With the 5.56 v 6.5/6.8/something else debate once again appearing in the US armed forces, it's probable that the MOD will sit on it's hands until they decide what calibre they are going to foist on the rest of us THIS time.

    If we had gone for the FN/FAL in .270 back in the 50's, then we would probably still be using some variant, or improvement of the same rifle.