• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

Wear Your Poppy With Pride

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
As George Santayana (a Spanish philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist) wrote “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Remembrance Day is an annual reminder of this unfortunate fact, and the war memorials in almost every village and town in the land make this testimony every day. Sadly, we choose not to learn.

Until Bush and Blair’s disastrous invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan war and its consequences were fairly remote to most of the public most of the time. The Ulster “troubles” were mostly confined to Northern Ireland. The Falklands was a brief conflict involving few regiments, with casualties concentrated in them (most notably the Welsh Guards after the sinking of the Sir Galahad). The death toll in Bosnia was mercifully low.

Then came Iraq and Afghanistan were two protracted and brutal campaigns that between them killed 626 servicemen and servicewomen over a decade? Hundreds more suffered “life changing” injuries (the euphemism for amputations) and potentially thousands have post-traumatic stress disorders.

Worse, it became apparent that the provisions for treating and rehabilitating servicemen in the UK were woefully inadequate, hence the establishment of Help for Heroes. Prince Harry served in Afghanistan and has subsequently and admirably championed both the rehabilitation of disabled servicemen and, increasingly, those with mental health problems. Throw in Gareth Gates and the Military Choir and it is little surprise that the fate of British servicemen is much more in the public consciousness. And rightly so.

“Wear your poppy with pride” we are exhorted. But pride in whom or what? Yes, it’s great to be associated with the superb men and women of our armed forces, but where is the pride in that? For retired soldiers like me, there is huge pride in remembering that I was a soldier once (and young) -tempered with memories of those I know who were wounded or killed. But I don’t think that is the point.

Am I proud that this country embarked upon ill-considered campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan? Am I proud that the government misled the public and Parliament with the false allegations about weapons of mass destruction? Am I proud that in both conflicts the armed forces were sent in insufficient numbers and with inadequate equipment? Of course not. Am I proud that since those conflicts the Armed Forces (particularly the Army) have been reduced in numbers to levels in which they are simply incapable of defending the Realm? What do you think. Am I proud that currently about 1,000 servicemen are deployed in Estonia as a (very) thin red line to face down a resurgent Russia? Am I heck – I’m bloody furious.

It turns out that we had a Secretary of State for Defence who was guilty of conduct that would have had him sacked from the Armed Forces, as well he knew. And yet he had the effrontery to take the job – resigning only when his foibles became public knowledge. Gordon Brown used to read out in Parliament the names of those killed, but he did less than nothing to deliver the equipment, numbers or cash (let alone strategic vision). And while he did it the whole Westminster cess pit went along with it, and acquiesced to the further defence cuts of Cameron and May.

And who put these philandering, deceitful, self-serving clowns in charge of this country in whose name so much blood has been shed, so many lives shattered? Dear reader it was you and it was me. And I feel anything but proud of that.
 
#3
As George Santayana (a Spanish philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist) wrote “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Remembrance Day is an annual reminder of this unfortunate fact, and the war memorials in almost every village and town in the land make this testimony every day. Sadly, we choose not to learn.

Until Bush and Blair’s disastrous invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan war and its consequences were fairly remote to most of the public most of the time. The Ulster “troubles” were mostly confined to Northern Ireland. The Falklands was a brief conflict involving few regiments, with casualties concentrated in them (most notably the Welsh Guards after the sinking of the Sir Galahad). The death toll in Bosnia was mercifully low.

Then came Iraq and Afghanistan were two protracted and brutal campaigns that between them killed 626 servicemen and servicewomen over a decade? Hundreds more suffered “life changing” injuries (the euphemism for amputations) and potentially thousands have post-traumatic stress disorders.

Worse, it became apparent that the provisions for treating and rehabilitating servicemen in the UK were woefully inadequate, hence the establishment of Help for Heroes. Prince Harry served in Afghanistan and has subsequently and admirably championed both the rehabilitation of disabled servicemen and, increasingly, those with mental health problems. Throw in Gareth Gates and the Military Choir and it is little surprise that the fate of British servicemen is much more in the public consciousness. And rightly so.

“Wear your poppy with pride” we are exhorted. But pride in whom or what? Yes, it’s great to be associated with the superb men and women of our armed forces, but where is the pride in that? For retired soldiers like me, there is huge pride in remembering that I was a soldier once (and young) -tempered with memories of those I know who were wounded or killed. But I don’t think that is the point.

Am I proud that this country embarked upon ill-considered campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan? Am I proud that the government misled the public and Parliament with the false allegations about weapons of mass destruction? Am I proud that in both conflicts the armed forces were sent in insufficient numbers and with inadequate equipment? Of course not. Am I proud that since those conflicts the Armed Forces (particularly the Army) have been reduced in numbers to levels in which they are simply incapable of defending the Realm? What do you think. Am I proud that currently about 1,000 servicemen are deployed in Estonia as a (very) thin red line to face down a resurgent Russia? Am I heck – I’m bloody furious.

It turns out that we had a Secretary of State for Defence who was guilty of conduct that would have had him sacked from the Armed Forces, as well he knew. And yet he had the effrontery to take the job – resigning only when his foibles became public knowledge. Gordon Brown used to read out in Parliament the names of those killed, but he did less than nothing to deliver the equipment, numbers or cash (let alone strategic vision). And while he did it the whole Westminster cess pit went along with it, and acquiesced to the further defence cuts of Cameron and May.

And who put these philandering, deceitful, self-serving clowns in charge of this country in whose name so much blood has been shed, so many lives shattered? Dear reader it was you and it was me. And I feel anything but proud of that.
I wear plastic/paper poppies to remember my mates and those who did more than I, even if they often didn't have much choice. That's it. Everything else doesn't interest me.
 
#5
............................................................

And who put these philandering, deceitful, self-serving clowns in charge of this country in whose name so much blood has been shed, so many lives shattered? Dear reader it was you and it was me. And I feel anything but proud of that.
I am sorry mate.

But I do buy the poppy and I do remember, all of them.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
I remember, so I don't really need to wear a poppy to advertise the fact but I do drop my spare change in a tin whenever I pass one. There were/are a lot who were not so lucky as I was.
 
#8
Until Bush and Blair’s disastrous invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan war and its consequences were fairly remote to most of the public most of the time. The Ulster “troubles” were mostly confined to Northern Ireland. The Falklands was a brief conflict involving few regiments, with casualties concentrated in them (most notably the Welsh Guards after the sinking of the Sir Galahad). The death toll in Bosnia was mercifully low
What happened to Korea 1070 KIA is that to far in the past?
 
#9
Trite nonsense. For a start there were 700+ deaths and 6000+ injuries in Northern Ireland, and it isn’t ‘remote’, it’s just a ferry ride away, and the consequences were felt keenly and all too real, witness the attacks on the mainland.

It’s the sort of Facebook BS which pretends to
be ‘deep’ and has a righteous tone which is posted & re-posted and people get a little self-satisfied buzz out of doing so; but guess what, it’s meaningless.
 
#16
I haven't. They're fat bastids, but they can get a fair turn of speed going when I'm sneaking up behind them.
That explains why you are banned from Marwell zoo
 

nice guy

On ROPS
On ROPs
#17
As George Santayana (a Spanish philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist) wrote “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Remembrance Day is an annual reminder of this unfortunate fact, and the war memorials in almost every village and town in the land make this testimony every day. Sadly, we choose not to learn.

Until Bush and Blair’s disastrous invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan war and its consequences were fairly remote to most of the public most of the time. The Ulster “troubles” were mostly confined to Northern Ireland. The Falklands was a brief conflict involving few regiments, with casualties concentrated in them (most notably the Welsh Guards after the sinking of the Sir Galahad). The death toll in Bosnia was mercifully low.

Then came Iraq and Afghanistan were two protracted and brutal campaigns that between them killed 626 servicemen and servicewomen over a decade? Hundreds more suffered “life changing” injuries (the euphemism for amputations) and potentially thousands have post-traumatic stress disorders.

Worse, it became apparent that the provisions for treating and rehabilitating servicemen in the UK were woefully inadequate, hence the establishment of Help for Heroes. Prince Harry served in Afghanistan and has subsequently and admirably championed both the rehabilitation of disabled servicemen and, increasingly, those with mental health problems. Throw in Gareth Gates and the Military Choir and it is little surprise that the fate of British servicemen is much more in the public consciousness. And rightly so.

“Wear your poppy with pride” we are exhorted. But pride in whom or what? Yes, it’s great to be associated with the superb men and women of our armed forces, but where is the pride in that? For retired soldiers like me, there is huge pride in remembering that I was a soldier once (and young) -tempered with memories of those I know who were wounded or killed. But I don’t think that is the point.

Am I proud that this country embarked upon ill-considered campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan? Am I proud that the government misled the public and Parliament with the false allegations about weapons of mass destruction? Am I proud that in both conflicts the armed forces were sent in insufficient numbers and with inadequate equipment? Of course not. Am I proud that since those conflicts the Armed Forces (particularly the Army) have been reduced in numbers to levels in which they are simply incapable of defending the Realm? What do you think. Am I proud that currently about 1,000 servicemen are deployed in Estonia as a (very) thin red line to face down a resurgent Russia? Am I heck – I’m bloody furious.

It turns out that we had a Secretary of State for Defence who was guilty of conduct that would have had him sacked from the Armed Forces, as well he knew. And yet he had the effrontery to take the job – resigning only when his foibles became public knowledge. Gordon Brown used to read out in Parliament the names of those killed, but he did less than nothing to deliver the equipment, numbers or cash (let alone strategic vision). And while he did it the whole Westminster cess pit went along with it, and acquiesced to the further defence cuts of Cameron and May.

And who put these philandering, deceitful, self-serving clowns in charge of this country in whose name so much blood has been shed, so many lives shattered? Dear reader it was you and it was me. And I feel anything but proud of that.
I'm no supporter of Blair or Brown but you are wrong here, New labour supplied vast sums of cash to the military the problem was how the chiefs of the different branch's decided to spend it, Labour had a lot of faults but cash for the military was not one of them.

It always irks me that these chiefs like Lord West or Dannat are only to happy to remain silent when the subjects of the Snatch lannie or aircraft carriers come up, it was not for Blair or Brown to tell them what they needed, the failure lays with those very chiefs.

As for your general point about the poppy I agree I have not worn one for years, it was a kind of protest at the Iraq war but recently I have dug in because I now see it as a political object, when you see people like foreign football managers wearing them its clear that Jose Mourinio is not wearing it because "those men died for us in two world wars" he's wearing it because he's been told to or he knows he will get slaughtered for not wearing one.

Its also now imo become a kind of national glorification badge, on war trail walks in France I have actually heard Brits and aussies arguing about who did what where ie people beating their drums with dead men's bones and it boils my piss to see our journo's and politicians wearing them abroad especially in places like China who ask for them not to be worn.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#18

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#19
I'm no supporter of Blair or Brown but you are wrong here, New labour supplied vast sums of cash to the military the problem was how the chiefs of the different branch's decided to spend it, Labour had a lot of faults but cash for the military was not one of them.
Not when it's UOR cash.
This isn't a gift to the forces, it's a loan that has to be repaid.
Brown knew damn well he'd never get elected, and like so many of his ilk before, did his best to ensure the cupboard was bare for the next incumbent.
 
#20
I shall wear my poppy in thanks for those who gave their lives so that I was not forced to go to war,probably the first generation not to be conscripted.
And also to remember the dead,of all sides,who died for their beliefs.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top