Weapon Cleaning - a rant

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by yater_spoon, Feb 4, 2009.

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  1. After this weekends SAAM our unit was handed back pistols assured that they were clean, when in fact they were bogging.
    People attended the drill night only to be told that they would be cleaning weapons that were taken out at the weekend, again the majority of which were dirty. Guess what, the majority of people who were on the weekend did not attend for the drill night. I fully appreciate that some people could not make it due to weather conditions but that does not stop those who live local to turn up. My cynical view is that they knew they would be weapon cleaning.
    What grips me is that these weapons were supposed to have been inspected by REME armourers before going into the armoury, and the worst offenders seem to be the weapons belonging to Officers and SNCO's.
    I suspect the usual excuse is that people wanted to get away on the Sunday so the weapons were not cleaned properly.
    It would appear the COC is the problem. any ideas on how to rectify the problem regarding persistent offenders?
    My personal view is that if a weapon is found to be dirty once placed in the armoury ie it avoids the inspection procedure reserved for riflemen, then the person responsible should be made to clean it there and then on the spot.
    Rant over
  2. Simple the weapon is signed out by one person and that person is responsible for cleaning it. It can be left for them to clean the next time they bother to turn up. Hence they will never manage to avoid cleaning their own weapons. 8)
  3. No excuse, really. Expecting somebody else to clean your weapon is just jack.
  4. try telling that to the officers mess :D
  5. Their weapons their problem, you should never expect anyone else to clean your weapons for you no matter who you may think you are.
  6. There is no excuse for a dirty weapon, as an Armourer when I checked wpns and found them to be dirty I would find out who last signed it out and then would pass the name onto the OC of the Company/Squadron. I did this irrespective of what the persons rank was.
  7. Wait until you need it, long ago in a far off land it was very cold .I felt sorry for the man on duty with me and offered to change places so he could stand in the slightly warmer sanger. As luck would have it about ten mins latter nasty people attacked our position, as we had swaped weapons I had his 9mm and he had my SLR. Well I drew tha 9mm and had the drop on the nasty man , pulled the trigger and nothing happend , the feffin thing was rank even though I had managed to get it out and cock it, it was so filthy the round hadn,t feed. So i smash it into the nasty mans face, somwhat putting him off his stride and survived. The person who's weapon it was, was a bandsman who had vollunteered for that night duty and almost lost his hand when he got hit so I felt I should not make a big thing about the state of his pistol, but dirty weapons can cost lives, so the people who dont keep them clean need good kicking

    Dundrilling was the bloke who should have been there instead of me
  8. Dont worry im sure the PSI will clean them.
  9. Not that this is a pet subject, or anything...

    Hopefully it's only the young officers... although the cynic in me might suggest that it's the low-numbered rifles in the rack that are issued in bulk for SAA lessons. Realistically, if you've got two 45-minute lessons on a training night, an instructor doesn't want to lose one of them queuing for personal weapons at the armoury door.

    Initially, it's a training problem - people have either not been taught, or have forgotten, how to use a cleaning kit.

    We don't tend to teach cleaning properly. You get a 45-minute lesson as a young crow on the items in the cleaning kit; if you're lucky, the instructor actually understands how to use them (and how not to use them). In many cases there's little supervision and feedback other than "take it away, it's bogging". Do that for 20 years, and there's a certain skills fade.

    Then, of course, you've got the failures of planning that result in inadequate amounts of scotchbrite, flannelette, and oil - normally excused by the bullsh*t that "in my day, we were only issued a single piece of 4x2 to clean the rifle" (not just TA on exercise - see 45 Cdo RM on Op ANACONDA).

    Then, you've got the failures in training that lead to abused cleaning kits, with parts missing or broken. How often are the contents checked, rather than just counted, at hand-in? Human nature says that because the cleaning kits tend to go into a big pile in the armoury, there's no incentive to make sure it's in good order - because you'll never get the same one back again. How often are the items demanded and replaced?

    Of course, there's always the idle w*nker that uses the chamber brush to dig out their gas parts, thus permanently f**king them up - soon, you might as well use it instead of scotchbrite, it's b*ggered anyway - and later you've got into the habit, so when you see a shiny new chamber brush, you promptly think it will be great for digging out your gas parts...

    My dream was that we should number cleaning kits and store them next to "their" rifles in the racks - that way, the individual took responsibility for the contents. Sigh.

    Dead easy. If you signed it out, and you handed it back dirty (and you've got confidence that it wasn't issued to the cadets, used by the RRTT, or otherwise, in the intervening period) then it's remedial training, followed by public humiliation, followed by disciplinary action. Regardless of rank or position.

    Personally, when dealing with the inexperienced, I used to reteach the correct use of cleaning materials... and to clean the rifle in lockstep. "e.g. "everyone, strip the weapon. Apply oil, and let it soak in. Now, let's pick up the gas block and a piece of scotchbrite..." until the rifles were clean.

    ....and breathe...

    PS. After SDR, Bn HQ moved out of our TA Centre, and the PSI decided that this was the moment to reallocate all of the weapons in the armoury. I ended up with butt number 1 (guess the job). Next weekend, I got to talk to the CO...
    "Colonel, you want to have a word with your driver"
    "Because your rifle was f***ing filthy..."
  10. Sorry but I've got to ask, why would REME Armourers need to inspect these weapons before they were put into the armourey? Were they faulty?
  11. "My dream was that we should number cleaning kits and store them next to "their" rifles in the racks - that way, the individual took responsibility for the contents. Sigh."

    Your dream is how we do it in my mob. Wohooo!

    Weapons are cleaned by owners end of.
  12. Problem is that most of the time weapon cleaning is never scheduled into the MEL. Weapon cleaning is then rushed back at TAC with seniors telling you to hurry up beacuse they want to get away, and they are usually the ones who have done fcuk all all weekend

    Its usually endex sunday morn, and then pop smoke stright away. Ok sometimes weapons can be done on transport back to TAC but blokes usually want to get their nut down after a weekend on exercise.

    There should be time set aside in the MEL for admin/weapon cleaning rather than trying to do it all within a hour back at TAC
  13. It's also how we used to do it in mine. However, a couple of PSIs back we changed to the 'big heap' method of storing cleaning kits and it all went downhill from there.
  14. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Weapon cleaning does not come under the "Main Events List". It is post exercise administration, pure and simple, and comes after ENDEX.

    Weapon cleaning takes 30 minutes in the hands of competent, trained soldiers. If you cannot do it in 30 minutes you are either poorly trained or incompetent.
  15. And therein lies the rub. "Shall we clean our weapons or shall we hand them back gopping and all trot off for our cheap post ex drinks?"
    That's not a bitch at stabs for being lazy, but its not being enforced from on high. I know because Ive seen it at the junior ranks level when I was a stab.