We must fight them in the Mills and in the mosques

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#1
Spotted this little gem in todays DT from Winston S Churchill esq.


Letters

Islamist danger

Sir – Britain sends some of the finest and most courageous of their generation to risk their lives and spill their blood chasing the Taliban out of Afghanistan. But who, meanwhile, is guarding our homeland?

A recent police report makes clear that, back here in Britain the Deobandi – the very same Islamist sect responsible for spawning the Taliban in Afghanistan – has succeeded in taking over more than 600 of Britain's 1,350 mosques. In addition, it controls 17 of Britain's 26 Islamic seminaries and produces 80 per cent of Britain's home-trained Islamic clerics.

It's a funny old world, as Margaret Thatcher once famously remarked. Except that this is no laughing matter. Not for 70 years has there been a more clear or present danger to our internal security, to our free society and to our democracy, than that posed by this vipers' nest in our midst. The Deobandi, an ultra- conservative sect, outlaws music, art, television and football, and also demands the entire concealment of women.

According to the Lancashire Council of Mosques, the Deobandi has now taken control of 59 out of 75 mosques in the old Lancashire mill towns of Oldham, Preston, Bury, Blackburn and Burnley. While not all Deobandis are extremist, leading preachers of this sect aim to radicalise the Islamic youth of Britain, and to mobilise them against our society and the freedoms we hold so dear.

When will the Government wake up to this mortal threat which – if not swiftly dealt with – threatens to bring strife and bloodshed to the streets of Britain on a scale far exceeding anything seen in the bombings of recent years?

Why are Gordon Brown and David Cameron, indeed our entire political class, so deafeningly silent on this, the most pressing matter confronting Britain today? Who will help the moderate majority of Muslims maintain control of their mosques? Who will safeguard the homeland?

Winston S. Churchill, London SW1



His related namesake certainly had the gift of vision and stood by his principles to the hilt but I feel that this 'call to arms' will be stamped all over by pc correctists, appologists and appeasists rather than open up a clear and honest debate about this threat. The taliban do stem from this 'sect' of Islam and as he points out, we are fighting a real and bloody war against them in Afghanistan and we are desperately seeking to up the public support for this war at home. Why do we allow the sect to get on with spreading their brand of extremism at home?

It is easy to read this as a rant againt Islam - its not (see how easy it is to be an apologist?) but unless this real threat is seen for what it is, then I feel our country may indeed become a battle ground against Islam as a whole. I agree with Churchill jr here and beleive that this specific threat needs to be addressed and dealt with asap

Churchill Snr was quoted as saying " Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak" Does this government (or any future government) have such courage?
 
#2
Why doesn't he speak up in the House of Parliament or House of Lords,or go on the TV or Radio and voice his opinions openly to the masses,or is he scared the PC brigade will have a go at him?
 
#3
A letter coming from an article in which the reporter supposedly 'saw' a police report. It didn't give the reports authors or who initiated the research. It certainly didn't quuote the article at any point and didn't even report as to whether the reporter had asked the police about the veracity of the supposed report.

All in all, junk reporting.
 
#5
It's a funny old world, as Margaret Thatcher once famously remarked. Except that this is no laughing matter. Not for 70 years has there been a more clear or present danger to our internal security, to our free society and to our democracy, than that posed by this vipers' nest in our midst. The Deobandi, an ultra- conservative sect, outlaws music, art, television and football, and also demands the entire concealment of women.
I knew quite a few Deobandis, some are United fans and some support Liverpool...that Times article was nothing but an outrageous slur.

As for Winston S. Churchill, this tool also supported the war in Iraq, I saw him on Fox news at the time saying its what his granddad would have done.

Bet the only reason he's achieved anything is because of his name.
 
#6
Awol said:
Funny how Sven's research faculties apparently fail when two minutes on Google throws up something he doesn't like.

The source of the report is about as reputable as you can get.

http://www.muslimsinbritain.org/index.html
sven shooting from the hip but claiming to be the font of all knowledge when really he hasn't a clue, never, not here. :roll:

I know he blags all the time, I had a discussion with him about the rules of flying a while ago and he didn't have a clue but swore blind black was white. He's not even a pilot but claimed to know all about it. That proved to me that just about anything that comes from him is almost definitely rubbish.

But to be blown out of the water by The Muslim Council is just sublime. :D
 
#7
If this is bad reporting based upon a badly sourced or poorly researched police report and the Deobandis in UKare honest reliable people with no taliban connections - should Winston Churchill be investigated and charged with inciting racial hatred?
 
#8
They vote, there are about two million of them, the main parties are interested only in chasing their vote and pandering to them not in dealing forcefully with them. The Islamic vote alone can, and increasingly will, swing elections.
We need a new party that will put the indiginous British first and if that sounds racist so be it.
We are constantly told it was wrong for us to be in their countries, in which case it must be wrong for them to be in ours.
 
#9
Taz_786 said:
It's a funny old world, as Margaret Thatcher once famously remarked. Except that this is no laughing matter. Not for 70 years has there been a more clear or present danger to our internal security, to our free society and to our democracy, than that posed by this vipers' nest in our midst. The Deobandi, an ultra- conservative sect, outlaws music, art, television and football, and also demands the entire concealment of women.

I knew quite a few Deobandis, some are United fans and some support Liverpool
...that Times article was nothing but an outrageous slur.

As for Winston S. Churchill, this tool also supported the war in Iraq, I saw him on Fox news at the time saying its what his granddad would have done.

Bet the only reason he's achieved anything is because of his name.
What does that have to do with anything?

Is that the new 'Cricket Test'?
 
#10
Taz_786 said:
I knew quite a few Deobandis, some are United fans and some support Liverpool...that Times article was nothing but an outrageous slur.

As for Winston S. Churchill, this tool also supported the war in Iraq, I saw him on Fox news at the time saying its what his granddad would have done.

Bet the only reason he's achieved anything is because of his name.
So is he incorrect then? Dispatches on C4 last night was pretty grim too, blokes threatening to do a 'twin towers' on a church that had the temerity to allow ex Muslim converts through it's doors. That kind of intolerence doesn't exactly breed peace and love Tazzy does it.
 
#11
baldcossack said:
We need a new party that will put the indiginous British first and if that sounds racist so be it.
We are constantly told it was wrong for us to be in their countries, in which case it must be wrong for them to be in ours.
What marks out who is an indigenous Briton and who isn't?

More to the point, who are 'they'? Many here will tell you that Muslims are not a race, so in theory they may have the odd indigenous Briton in their midst too. Where do they go?

Just curious, like.
 
#12
Taz_786 said:
It's a funny old world, as Margaret Thatcher once famously remarked. Except that this is no laughing matter. Not for 70 years has there been a more clear or present danger to our internal security, to our free society and to our democracy, than that posed by this vipers' nest in our midst. The Deobandi, an ultra- conservative sect, outlaws music, art, television and football, and also demands the entire concealment of women.
I knew quite a few Deobandis, some are United fans and some support Liverpool...that Times article was nothing but an outrageous slur.

As for Winston S. Churchill, this tool also supported the war in Iraq, I saw him on Fox news at the time saying its what his granddad would have done.

Bet the only reason he's achieved anything is because of his name.
How much would you like to "bet"?

Or are you just out to try and slur the title of this thread??
 
#13
ExplodingTrousers said:
baldcossack said:
We need a new party that will put the indiginous British first and if that sounds racist so be it.
We are constantly told it was wrong for us to be in their countries, in which case it must be wrong for them to be in ours.
What marks out who is an indigenous Briton and who isn't?

More to the point, who are 'they'? Many here will tell you that Muslims are not a race, so in theory they may have the odd indigenous Briton in their midst too. Where do they go?

Just curious, like.
But thats just sticking your head in the sand to avoid the problem. :?
 
#14
baldcossack said:
They vote, there are about two million of them, the main parties are interested only in chasing their vote and pandering to them not in dealing forcefully with them. The Islamic vote alone can, and increasingly will, swing elections.
We need a new party that will put the indiginous British first and if that sounds racist so be it.
We are constantly told it was wrong for us to be in their countries, in which case it must be wrong for them to be in ours.
If this were our Country then yes it would be but under Islam, they own everything so either convert or pack your bags and get out of Allahs green and pleasant land you infidel dog
 
#15
I heard on 5 Live last week an interview with a Canadian Lady, who was also a muslim, calling on all "moderates" within the religion to openly debate Islam. Apparantly (according to her) the "moderate" muslim community in Canada was vocal in its opposition to fundamentalism and by engaging in debate with their peers, reduced the mistrust that exists between religious groups.

Why are the "moderate" muslim leaders in this country so quiet?
 
#16
OK, the Deobandi sect- or school, if you prefer- are very, very strict & in my opinion unpleasant.

Yet not even all of them- the most 'traditionalist' and yet in fact radical element within British Islam (save out-and-out Salafists)- would sanction hanging casette recorders from the lamposts, Taliban-stylee.

You can't illegalise a school of thought. The idea is nonsensical. What we can- and I think should- do is fund and promote Sufi mosques and medressehs within the UK, and ensure that Sufi imams get the plum jobs in British mosques: which would in fact represent the beliefs of most UK Muslims.

The MCB can go fuck itself, though, and ought to be disbanded. It's been riding the tiger of Islamism for too long.
 
#17
drain_sniffer said:
I heard on 5 Live last week an interview with a Canadian Lady, who was also a muslim, calling on all "moderates" within the religion to openly debate Islam. Apparantly (according to her) the "moderate" muslim community in Canada was vocal in its opposition to fundamentalism and by engaging in debate with their peers, reduced the mistrust that exists between religious groups.

Why are the "moderate" muslim leaders in this country so quiet?
Probably because they would be murdered if they spoke out?
 
#18
Exp Trousers makes a good point - what is an indigenous Briton? Many immigrants are now 2nd or 3rd generation Britons and to my mind are Britons. This is not an anti immigrant or anti religious freedom argument it is an anti "what we believe Britain should be" argument. We didn't believe we should be under Naziism, so we stood and fought with all British people against that threat - likewise Communism. It didn't matter whether the fight was taken up by Muslims or Jews or Gypsies or whatever, it was what the majority of Britain wanted: they voted for it and the government acted. We didn't like what we found after WW2 so we voted the government out. It is this liberal democracy which we believe in.

What we fear here is that the liberal democracy will be removed. The taliban have a track record of this.

Ironically, if the threat being discussed here is not addressed then we could even see a non violent takeover in 2 - 3 generations as each rises to vote, votes for their ilk, and whoosh! bang! o nasty! we have a majority government or anti democracy extremists. Look at the birth rates of Muslims against non Muslims in this country (just see that the most popular name is soon to become Mohammed baby names )

Alarmist? Yes but we should have the courage to debate this openly and frankly now, whilst we still have a democracy to do so.
 
#19
Rumpelstiltskin said:
OK, the Deobandi sect- or school, if you prefer- are very, very strict & in my opinion unpleasant.

Yet not even all of them- the most 'traditionalist' and yet in fact radical element within British Islam (save out-and-out Salafists)- would sanction hanging casette recorders from the lamposts, Taliban-stylee.

You can't illegalise a school of thought. The idea is nonsensical. What we can- and I think should- do is fund and promote Sufi mosques and medressehs within the UK, and ensure that Sufi imams get the plum jobs in British mosques: which would in fact represent the beliefs of most UK Muslims.

The MCB can go fuck itself, though, and ought to be disbanded. It's been riding the tiger of Islamism for too long.
Could you explain what I have put in bold above?

Are you saying all of them or some of them or most of them?

Or none of them or ????
 
#20
Ord_Sgt said:
But thats just sticking your head in the sand to avoid the problem. :?
Is it? Since baldcossack brought up the numbers, let's assume that there is a block of 2 million votes to be had. The trouble is, what this does is assume that this vote will all fall in the same direction at some level, and doesn't include standard bread and butter issues. Do people really vote in a particular way because that's what their Imam told them to do?

I'm asking my questions from a standpoint of some ignorance, by the way, so feel free to set me straight...
 
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