we do have the best!

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by quiller, Apr 1, 2003.

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  1. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    Can anyone find the article in the Mail today refering to British soldiers as "disciplined monsters" and "basically better soldiers"?
     
  2. i've been trying, it's a great article - "quite frankly, the average british infantryman is far better. they're a tribe of feral monsters, but they're highly disciplined monsters. you don't want to get in their way"
     
  3. I would say that it comes from experience in NI and peacekeeping. Yanks have zero experience in actually having to deal with the people they're trying to kill. ::) Unless, of course, we bring up Vietnam. Which I won't...or did I? :-X
     
  4. Huron,

    Don't forget the considerable experience the canadians have in Peacekeeping operations eh :)
     
  5. Why this quote is most likely true.

    I'm sorry to say but you are dealing with our Mech Infantry, they are not our most disciplined forces. As I find myself in agreement with statements in the article, I also felt that some were a bit too broad.

    The Airborne and Light Infantry forcer (82nd, 101st, 10th, Rangers, SOCOM) are a much more disciplined outfit. Always have been and always will be, mech will always love their vehicles and hate to dismount.  A common quote used in mech land, "Death before Dismount" it's sad but true for the most part.

    We have in the last two years made the "Infantry" a one title job. Meaning, that a mech soldier and a light soldier are now interchangeable. Before we had 11M (mech) and 11B (light), they trained different and were assigned different missions. Maybe with the integration of all Infantry as one job (MOS), this problem will be fixed.

    As for Rummy, he's an idiot to second guess our Generals. He was trying to make a big show of this war and he stepped on his crank. Why the forces selected were selected I wont speculate, but I'll say the Light forces train much more in the area of Urban combat and civilians on the battlefield. It was always our bread and butter, and they are quite proficient.

    I hope you get a chance to fight along side our Light guys before this done. Those mech boys just don't compare... In my humble opinion.
     
  6. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Damn, Septic alert!  Probably gotta be a little nice to him as well - seeing a he's a guest and all.

    11B3VB4, Welcome, read most of your posts re A10 FF here and back on your own site.  Pleasure reading your posts and thanks for the sympathies.

    It's been my opinion since ever that the US forces are great at killing their enemy (no doubt best in the world at open warfare) but when it comes to running occupied, sorry, I mean liberated countries us Brits have all the skills.  Is this a feeling in the US Forces or, dare I ask, is there a belief that USForces are number one all over.  I suppose I should ask your opinion first as well.  And what's the public's belief?  Working or living in Europe for years I've noticed it's a common belief that US Forces are the best at everything - frankly a stunning concept to me but then they were just ignorant peace-loving civvies...
     
  7. Mr.Happy: please don't concern yourself with my feelings, as my wife says "they rarely incur into my thoughts or reasoning." Speak your mind!

    As far as an occupied (liberated) country goes, I can't think of any reason we should be in the lead. Well I could but it does not make sense, although LTG Abazae (sp) seems quite qualified. I would hope it would be a combined effort all around. Do I think we have some special skill at it? Doubtful, it's just not what we train for. Where you Brits have been dealing with NI for... well you know.

    Do I think US forces are tops? I think our light Infantry, Airborne Infantry, Rangers, and SPECOPS guys are all top notch. I'd put them up against the best in the world any day of the week.

    As for our other forces, well it's difficult to explain. Our Army was gutted by mr.clintoon, we are in the process of recovery as well as fighting this BS "Army of One" crap. It has fostered a bad morale in many troops, as well as our training becoming quite "Canned" out side of our light troops.

    Granted I am (or was) a light troop for 10 of my 12 years, I am bias and I do hold our other forces in contempt for lacking basic discipline that I feel all soldiers should posses. Doesn't matter if your a cook, mechanic, or typist, a soldier is a soldier and it should all start there. But as I'm sure you know it doesn't!

    That being said, I wouldn't trade the US soldier for any. They can do amazing things if led correctly and trained correctly.

    My thoughts, I would gladly turn Iraq over to England, Australia or other equally responsible country for it's reconstruction. The sooner our boys and girls come home the better for all concerned.  I also lean toward isolationism to some extent, but that is another debate all together.

    Sorry it's so long.
     
  8. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    "Army of One"? Que?

    You'll have to put some explanation in I'm afraid old chap, not to conversant with the Yank-speak way of things don't you know. ;)

    Toodles.

    Woo
     
  9. it's a bit like this:


    An Army of One
     
         The U.S. Army is the most powerful, most respected and most feared ground force in the world. At it's core, the success of the Army  lives and dies on every soldier's ability to think and to take decisive  action -- to lead themselves and others.

       Fundamentally, the Army protects all that the U.S. Constitution  stands for. Each soldier will defend this to his/her last breath with  Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless-Service, Honor, Integrity and  Personal Courage.
      To accomplish this mission the Army invests in each individual,  developing soldiers who are strong in mind, body, and soul, and who  understand the power of teamwork.
      The Army equips them to make a significant difference, on foreign  soil and within their communities, as soldiers and as citizens.


    or so they say

    http://www.usarec.army.mil/2ndbde/3ebn/Army%20of%20One%20Definition.html
     
  10. Well that is one way of looking at it...

    "Army of One" is the new Army slogan adopted some 3 years ago. Many old soldiers felt that it highlights the individual over the Team/Squad/Platoon etc...

    The mentality of the Army was changing prior to this incursion into Iraq. I guess we will have to see what this might do for training of new soldiers in the future.

    "Be All that you can be" Was the old slogan, a group thing ya know?

    Basically now the Army is promoting or appearing to promote the individual over the whole. Where we all know there are not many real "Rambos" in the real world.
     
  11. http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12279741,00.html

    BRIT BASRA TACTICS PRAISED

    US forces have praised the "impressive" British tactics used around Basra and may adopt the strategies in its Baghdad battle plans.

    "In Baghdad, we will definitely use a lot of the effective techniques and utilise some of the larger strategic lessons we learned in the British efforts over Basra," a senior military official told The Washington Times.


    Two examples of unusual yet successful soldiering in the past two days have drawn praise from US Central Command operations chiefs.

    British 7th Armoured Brigade troops, better known as the Desert Rats, deliberately allowed residents to loot a Ba'ath Party headquarters near Basra within minutes of the office's capture and search.

    "Normally we would stop looting because it's a sign that things have got out of control and that law and order has broken down," said Captain Alex Cartwright.

    "But in this case we decided that to allow it would send a powerful message: that we are in control now, not the Ba'ath Party."

    In another incident, when an Iraqi colonel was fatally shot in his vehicle, British troops found a thick wad of local currency.

    Instead of handing it in to officers, the troops decided to dole the cash out to wide-eyed local youngsters, a monetary variant of handing out sweets.
     
  12. Yea PTP, our NI was Cyprus. Unfortunately, our government hasn't realized that there isn't really anymore peacekeeping, its now peacemaking. They don't seem to want to understand that the best peacekeeper is a sniper ;D Just ask the Serbs and Croats.

    11B3VB4, never quite understood how Clinton gutted the armed forces? You guys still had the largest fighting force in the world. Not trying to stir the pot either, just wondering. Actually have 2 nephews serving in the USMC in Iraq at the moment. From my little community alone in Nova Scotia, there are 29 guys in the USMC, all in Iraq, out of a population of 12K.