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watch your backs and tongues

#1
it seems that the new-labour madness is affecting more and more normal people


A prison officer (Mr Rose, a former Coldstream Guardsman with a 21-year unblemished record in the Prison Service, is claiming unfair dismissal) was sacked for making an allegedly insulting remark about Osama bin Laden two months after the September 11 attacks, an employment tribunal heard yesterday.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$NN1MYUKTBOPVZQFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2003/12/03/npris03.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/12/03/ixportal.html

Prison officer sacked for bin Laden 'insult'
By David Sapsted
(Filed: 03/12/2003)


A prison officer was sacked for making an allegedly insulting remark about Osama bin Laden two months after the September 11 attacks, an employment tribunal heard yesterday.

Colin Rose, 53, was told he had to go because, although he did not know it, three Muslim visitors could have heard his "insensitive" comment about the world's most reviled terrorist.

The assistant governor at Blundeston Prison, near Lowestoft, Suffolk, gave him a ticking off at the time. But he was sacked after a six-month investigation.

Mr Rose, a former Coldstream Guardsman with a 21-year unblemished record in the Prison Service, is claiming unfair dismissal.

The Norwich hearing was told that on Nov 15, 2001, he threw some keys into a metal chute at the prison gatehouse. When someone said it sounded as if he had thrown them so hard that they were going through the tray at the bottom of the chute, Mr Rose said: "There's a photo of Osama bin Laden there."

Peter McKinnon, another prison officer, told him to be quiet because two Asian women wearing headscarves and an Asian man were at the window of the gatehouse.

The investigation never discovered whether the visitors heard the comment.

Andrew Rogers, the assistant governor, told the tribunal: "I am not sure whether Mr Rose saw the visitors.

"I took offence at the comment. If the visitors had heard the comment, they might have taken offence, too." When Mr Rose was carpeted the next day, he said it was only a throwaway remark. But a few days later, while he was off with a recurrence of a back injury he suffered when suppressing a violent inmate, the investigation was ordered.

When he returned after a fortnight, Jerry Knight, the prison governor, suspended him pending a formal inquiry.

He was sacked in May last year after a disciplinary hearing.

Mr Knight told the tribunal that the prison had a large Asian population, including many Muslims.

"On Sept 25, 2001, a staff notice was issued regarding the terrorist bombing of America, asking for staff to have continued sensitivity.

"I asked them to avoid inflaming the situation."

Prison officer Mark Ewels, who conducted the investigation, said he had not tried to track down the Asians to find out if they had heard the remark because he thought the issue was too sensitive to raise with them.

The hearing continues.
 
#2
Okay this is a clear case of PC gone mad...
assumption, all mid-east population are pro-terrorism...wrong.
assumption, people will take offense to every off hand comment...wrong.
The prison authorities are casting assumptions that border on the insane, they are fuel to the fire that creates racial tension...
Thank God they never venture in here!!!
 
#3
What really annoys me is the fact that some white middle-class liberal toss pot has decided (in the most patronisingly possible fashion) that someone from an ethnic minority might have been offended. Which I find more offensive than the remark in quesion.

msr
 
V

vespa

Guest
#4
the asians themselves probably agreed with the prison officers comments about Osama ! haven't they thought about that ?
 
#5
As I said on another thread, surely the Muslim population could make an official complaint against the prison governor for making the assumption that all Muslims are terrorist sympathisers?
 
#6
When someone said it sounded as if he had thrown them so hard that they were going through the tray at the bottom of the chute, Mr Rose said: "There's a photo of Osama bin Laden there."
Would the response be the same if he'd said there was a photo of Tony Blair and the visitors had been Labour voters?

And if the visitors didn't complain, who's the back stabbing tosser, grassing up a colleague?
 
#7
quiller said:
.

"I took offence at the comment. If the visitors had heard the comment, they might have taken offence, too."
This man is in the wrong job if he took offence at this remark.

Note also the incredibly daft "If they had...they might have". I hope he loses his job.

Twatt twatt twatt
 
#8
Interesting posts regarding the unfortunate prison officer who was dismissed following "insensitive" remarks he allegedly made against Bin Laden.

As a former British Army officer currently an Assistant Governor (Deputy Warden) of a large maximum security prison (with a sizeable inmate Muslim population) in the USA we experienced similar incidents immediately following the horror of 9/11.
As the news of the infamous attacks unfolded several Muslim inmates, all "Jail House converts", were heard to cheer, naturally this incensed the already distraught staff of whom several were moved to verbally express their displeasure.

Our prisons, contrary to what is portrayed in movies, have a very strict code of conduct governing staff discipline, professional inter-action with inmates/visitors etc., similar standards, I am sure, are extant in the British prison system. Breaches of staff discipline can, and sometimes do, in a volatile prison environment, have a negative impact on the safety and security of the public, staff and inmates.

Whereas emotionally I can understand the officer in questions' remarks, as an administrator I can not condone them and would take immediate corrective action to prevent a reoccurence. That said I believe depriving the officer of his livelihood was rather draconian and there does seem to have been a breach of "Due Process" in the investigatory and disciplinary procedures leading up to his dismissal. Any labour lawyer worth his/her salt will, I am sure, have no problem in launching a successful appeal and have the dismissal reduced to a less severe sanction.

Similarly, as a platoon commander in the West Belfast of the early 1970s, I would have taken an extremely dim view of any Jock who made inflammatory remarks denigrating Republican terrorists in, say, a crowded area of Divis Flats (no matter how much I agreed with his sentiments!). It's not what is said but where it is said and the consequences of the outburst. It all boils down to adhering to the code of discipline.
 
#9
The officer who is up for dismissal was guilty of a Thought-Crime. He should have been arrested immediately by the Ministry of Love and sent to Room 101.

Big Brother is watching you right now - don't even THINK about a crime
 
#10
The attitude of the Governor and management board of this prison is quite clearly racist. What they are saying is that all moslems are supporters of Bin Laden and therefore international terrorism. Patronising *********. Anyone know the address of the CRE and I will complain myself. Best send a copy to the Prison Service so if anyone can give me their address.
 
O

one_flew_over

Guest
#11
If as Busterdog suggests that some action needed to be take surely a quick slap on the wrist would have been (more than) enough. This is sheer stupidity and the tanker that grassed him should be ashamed.
 
#12
I'm not too sure it's fair. First of all he was sacked for something so petty. And secondly, he was sacked without knowing he'd commited a 'sackable' offence after having such a long, unblemished record.

Quite a shock to know that it's not just in the Army that the 'Man Management' book is read, thrown away and ignored.
 
#13
Okay not totally on the thread but almost, have you seen the 'apartment' inside Bar-L Prison that the Lockerbie bomber occupies?
He has his own kitchen, TV and phone.
No electricity restrictions so he's pretty much living in a holiday home until the Humanitarians tell us his rights are being violated and he should be serving his sentence in a prison of his choice...
Then it'll be off home to a heroes welcome
 
#15
Shanghaied by an American woman in the mid 1980s. Found Insurance underwriting boring, teaching not financially viable and ate too many do-nuts as a cop.

Gave up on the pump action shotguns in favour of M16s and modified M14s with 3 shot burst capability. Hand guns are Glocks. Riot guns Arwins.
We have the usual pyrotechnics, flashbangs, stun grenades, lachrymatory agents, bean bags, rubber rounds etc. We seldom get to use the stuff relying mainly on communication skills and, if all else fails, the heid!

Promotion is steady, a degree in a related field is necessary, being "The mother f****r with the James Bond voice" a distinct advantage.
Not for the claustrophobic or the faint hearted, still miss the British Army, particularly the humour. Haven't seen the woman in years, think she's in Vegas.
 
#16
Busterdog said:
Interesting posts regarding the unfortunate prison officer who was dismissed following "insensitive" remarks he allegedly made against Bin Laden.

As a former British Army officer currently an Assistant Governor (Deputy Warden) of a large maximum security prison (with a sizeable inmate Muslim population) in the USA we experienced similar incidents immediately following the horror of 9/11.
As the news of the infamous attacks unfolded several Muslim inmates, all "Jail House converts", were heard to cheer, naturally this incensed the already distraught staff of whom several were moved to verbally express their displeasure.

Our prisons, contrary to what is portrayed in movies, have a very strict code of conduct governing staff discipline, professional inter-action with inmates/visitors etc., similar standards, I am sure, are extant in the British prison system. Breaches of staff discipline can, and sometimes do, in a volatile prison environment, have a negative impact on the safety and security of the public, staff and inmates.

Whereas emotionally I can understand the officer in questions' remarks, as an administrator I can not condone them and would take immediate corrective action to prevent a reoccurence. That said I believe depriving the officer of his livelihood was rather draconian and there does seem to have been a breach of "Due Process" in the investigatory and disciplinary procedures leading up to his dismissal. Any labour lawyer worth his/her salt will, I am sure, have no problem in launching a successful appeal and have the dismissal reduced to a less severe sanction.

Similarly, as a platoon commander in the West Belfast of the early 1970s, I would have taken an extremely dim view of any Jock who made inflammatory remarks denigrating Republican terrorists in, say, a crowded area of Divis Flats (no matter how much I agreed with his sentiments!). It's not what is said but where it is said and the consequences of the outburst. It all boils down to adhering to the code of discipline.
Sanctimonius tw*t, what a load of crap, anyone who would get upset about comments made about a murdering bastard like Bin Laden are showing there true colours, the person in question did not make a racial remark it was about ONE INDIVIDUAL, BIN LADEN , a personal remark, I personally think Bin Laden is a murdering tw*t, and if he wants to come and "talk" to me about it he is more than welcome face to face , man to man not like the coward he is. This case is a load of Bullshit and should be put right NOW and the pc mindless morons should be made to account for their actions, and at the very least be investigated by the releveant authourities as possible Bin Laden sympathisers.
 
#17
quiller said:
Colin Rose, 53, was told he had to go because, although he did not know it, three Muslim visitors could have heard his "insensitive" comment about the world's most reviled terrorist.
.

How do they know if they were Moslem? Could have been Hindus for all they know

quiller said:
Peter McKinnon, another prison officer, told him to be quiet because two Asian women wearing headscarves and an Asian man were at the window of the gatehouse.
Ah the evidence they were Moslem - swarthy complextion and wearing headscarves. Could they not also have been Isrealis?? I have seen Israeli women wearing headscarves and they are definatley not Moslem.

quiller said:
Andrew Rogers, the assistant governor, told the tribunal: "I am not sure whether Mr Rose saw the visitors. "I took offence at the comment. If the visitors had heard the comment, they might have taken offence, too."
Utter bollox - They might not have as well. They might have been refugees from Afganistan who had suffered at the hands of the known Bin Laden supporters, The Taliban. Had they heard they might have applauded his remark.

quiller said:
Prison Officer Mark Ewels, who conducted the investigation, said he had not tried to track down the Asians to find out if they had heard the remark because he thought the issue was too sensitive to raise with them.
Who the fcuk is he to decide what is 'to sensitive' to raise with another person. It wasn't too 'sensitive' an issue to raise with the bloke who made the remark.

The court should dimiss this outright or am I alone in thinking that there is a little more to this than meets the eye- This PC claptrap is little more than a smoke screen to get shot of someone by the sounds of it

If it does stick and he is dismissed on this pretext - just take me out the back and put a round in my head.
 
#18
Well said Tigger!!! Like you said, if he had used the phrase "Murdering Rag Head or Sand Ni**er" then he should be rapped for it as he could be seen as casting aspersions on all Muslims. However, he mentioned OBL by name. Anyone who backs this rediculous accusation must be a stinking terrorist loving pr*ck who deserves to be shot.

Anyway, what about the British Muslims who were rejoicing at the 9/11 terrorist action. You don't see them getting prosecuted. In fact, they were probably expressing their right to free speech or some cr*p like that. Personally, I think they should all be tried for treason and executed...or put in a room one by one with the families of those killed.

 
#19
Tigger c/s-30 referred to me as a sanctimonious tw*t in response to my post regarding the dismissed Prison Officer. I must be getting old, I've had many sobriquets applied to my name but not that particular epithet nor have I ever had my patriotism doubted. Scary thought that one can not voice one's opinion without having one's dedication to democracy doubted. Is Tigger working for Rumsfeld?

Read my post again. The gist of it is adherence to discipline not the sentiment expressed by the Prison Officer. We know what the officer said but not the manner in which he said it, his body language etc. (which, apparently, was disturbing enough to warrant censure from his fellow officer on post). I also stated his dismissal was too severe and that he, hopefully, should win his appeal.

I stand by my views on the subject and respect everyone else's opinion though abhor the insulting language. Sanctimonious tw*t that I am!


"I disagree with what you say but would defend with my life your right to say it".
 
#20
Bravo_Bravo said:
quiller said:
.

"I took offence at the comment. If the visitors had heard the comment, they might have taken offence, too."
This man is in the wrong job if he took offence at this remark.

Note also the incredibly daft "If they had...they might have". I hope he loses his job.

Twatt twatt twatt
Sadly many organisations, especially the Police, seem to be filling with tossers like this as the PC hoop-jumping drives out those who can actually do the job. :evil:

On the bright side, the next time they have a riot in this nick, I can't see many fellow officers jumping in to save this grassing tosser from being buggered by half of 'B' wing. :twisted:
 

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