Watch out when buying fuel in France

#1
Since eco-wackery is all the rage these days, the French have now decided that from April 1 this year (yes, it sounds like a sick joke, but it isn't) that E10 fuel is going to be on sale. This is petrol that contains 10% ethanol. They're probably getting a massive subsidy from the Common agricultural policy to grow corn inefficiently and turn it inefficiently into alcohol so that beardie wierdies and other assorted tree huggers can claim to be "Sayving zee Planeet".

The upstart of this is that there is a 40% chance that it will trash your engine (probably to then make you go out and buy a French car...)

So, is your car compatible? According to this: http://fr.cars.yahoo.com/02042009/321/nouveau-e10-pour-qui-0.html

All petrol cars from 01.01.2000 from Audi, Citroën, Kia, Nissan, Peugeot, Porsche, Seat, Volkswagen and Ford (except Mondeo 1,8L DOHC DISI 96 Kw 01.01.2004-31.12.2006);
all petrol BMW, Lexus and Toyota from 01.01.1998;
Volvo: all petrol models from 01.01.1977, except S40/V40 1.8i:
Saab: all petrol models from 01.01.1979;
Subaru: idem 01/01/1993
Honda: idem 01.01.1994
for other models (and remembering that your Vauxhall is in fact an Opel), use the utility here: http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=990
your Type de Véhicule is "Véhicules légers et camionnettes".

If in doubt when filling up in France, check that you are filling with plain old 95 RON and NOT E10.

This public service broadcaster was brought to you by The Stoat.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#2
I accidently filled up with eco-diesel one night in France.
Knocked about 30% off the cars performance and range - and everytime I got out of the car I could smell somebody using a deep fat fryer nearby.......
 
#3
Alsacien said:
I accidently filled up with eco-diesel one night in France.
Knocked about 30% off the cars performance and range - and everytime I got out of the car I could smell somebody using a deep fat fryer nearby.......
And I was about to write vive le diesel. Merde. :(
Having said that I have had no problems yet.
I always use the super/hypermarches own filling stations and hope for the best. :D
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#4
Drlligaf said:
Alsacien said:
I accidently filled up with eco-diesel one night in France.
Knocked about 30% off the cars performance and range - and everytime I got out of the car I could smell somebody using a deep fat fryer nearby.......
And I was about to write vive le diesel. Merde. :(
Having said that I have had no problems yet.
I always use the super/hypermarches own filling stations and hope for the best. :D
They are the cheapest, no problem with them if you just check the pump sticker to see what you are putting in your tank.....
 
#5
My Honda works fine with the euro-muck.
 
#6
Apart from the eco-bandwagon, the French are using this as a way of boosting their rural economy, i.e. more subsidies for French farmers to grow sh1tloads of Beet as ethanol feedstock.

Also unfortunate if you are a Muslim: a cleric has declared use of fuel containing ethanol a sin, which seems to void another sort of warranty.......
 
#7
On the flip side of the coin, while tanking in Deutschland I saw they have 100 Octane petrol at the motorway pumps, price was outrageous but then again if you own a Porsche or other Schwanzrakete for belting down the autobahn fuel cost should not be an issue.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#8
Croque_Monsieur said:
On the flip side of the coin, while tanking in Deutschland I saw they have 100 Octane petrol at the motorway pumps, price was outrageous but then again if you own a Porsche or other Schwanzrakete for belting down the autobahn fuel cost should not be an issue.
I notice a performance difference using 100 in my Ducati, a 17lt bike tank does not bankrupt you either, but for a car it seems OTT.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a car with a high enough compression to notice any gains.
 
#9
We have had E85 Fuel out here for about 12 months now. That's 15% "Petrol' and 85 % Ethanol.
It was introduced to cut down on expensive oil imports.
Certain very highly placed MP's are known to own the massive agricultural farms producing the green stuff.
My new Honda Jazz can use it but I know from published figures that I get more Kms / Baht with the expensive 91 Benzine then from any of the cheaper alternative fuels.
john
 
#10
And, of course, in the fatherland they also sell 91 octane still...
 
#11
Alsacien said:
Croque_Monsieur said:
On the flip side of the coin, while tanking in Deutschland I saw they have 100 Octane petrol at the motorway pumps, price was outrageous but then again if you own a Porsche or other Schwanzrakete for belting down the autobahn fuel cost should not be an issue.
I notice a performance difference using 100 in my Ducati, a 17lt bike tank does not bankrupt you either, but for a car it seems OTT.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a car with a high enough compression to notice any gains.

Yup, the Honda, 2.0 iVTEC engine runs more frisky on 100 Octane
 
#12
Surprisingly, my 1999 1.6i Astra runs far better on 95 than 97/98, to the tune of a good 2 km per litre better. I did not notice any difference in power though.
 
#13
Alsacien said:
I notice a performance difference using 100 in my Ducati, a 17lt bike tank does not bankrupt you either, but for a car it seems OTT.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a car with a high enough compression to notice any gains.
I use it in my car and the improvement is significant, doesn't make much more power, but the power delivery is much smoother and more linear with no det at higher boost levels.

Thats on a 1996 Mitsi lancer Evo IV, and I would imagine the same to be true of most turbocharged cars
 
#14
Blogg said:
Apart from the eco-bandwagon, the French are using this as a way of boosting their rural economy, i.e. more subsidies for French farmers to grow sh1tloads of Beet as ethanol feedstock.

Also unfortunate if you are a Muslim: a cleric has declared use of fuel containing ethanol a sin, which seems to void another sort of warranty.......
Now that is fucking funny. Lets persuade all of the mad mullahs to pass such statements and then convert all UK petrol to E10. Now if only they can develope a dielsel that needs "thinning" with ethanol we send the whole ******* lot of fundies back to using donkeys.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#15
DuncsGTi said:
Alsacien said:
I notice a performance difference using 100 in my Ducati, a 17lt bike tank does not bankrupt you either, but for a car it seems OTT.
I would be interested to hear if anyone has a car with a high enough compression to notice any gains.
I use it in my car and the improvement is significant, doesn't make much more power, but the power delivery is much smoother and more linear with no det at higher boost levels.

Thats on a 1996 Mitsi lancer Evo IV, and I would imagine the same to be true of most turbocharged cars
Any more power out of that engine and you would be wearing bits of it as piercings. Hope you wear Nomex everytime you go out in it - sounds like it will not be your long term commuting vehicle.. :wink:
 
#16
If you are finding you are getting significant improvemnt in performance from just changing fuel it will be for one of two reasons. 1, the higher octane stuff also has premium additive packages in which allow your car to run at it's optimal performance - i.e. lubricity for pumps and injectors, and detergents for cleaning injectors/valve's - it effectively just restores the car to it's original capacity.

2 - your car has been already set up to run on a higher octane fuel, thusly compression ratios will be up and ignition timing advanced - what you do want to check is that you car is not "normally" running on a inferior fuel to which it was set up!

Most new cars go through a farily exhaustive test process, using complex fuel matrix' to ensure that they will not suffer any i'll effects on different grades of fuel - such as dodgy Ukranian fuel, or some French reclaimed Bio diesel. They will be set up for a standard such as 95 ron for your normal everyday Focus or Micra, however your premiumu cars will oftern be set up to run on a min of 97/98ron. The Engine control unit will be geared up to accept down to 91ron, but at much lower power and efficiency. To date there are no road cars coming out of factory gates designed to run on Min 100ron!

PS
 
#17
Gasoline mixed with 10% ethanol has been available in the Land of the Free for awhile now and most every car and truck engine made tolerates it. E85 is here too, but only flexi-fuel vehicles made since 2000 can use it without damage. It's cheaper than the E10 mixture, but not as efficient as there's less energy in the stuff. This however doesn't appear to worry the greens and the eco-nazis. :roll:
 

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