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Warship,Life At Sea (HMS Duncan)

...not hat long ago that Britain was bragging about how it had basically ruined russsia both financially and militarily...

I don't think Britain ever 'bragged' about the ruinous position of Russia post the collapse of communism. If you believe otherwise, please offer some links to official statements or policy.

However, I would agree to an extent that the West missed an opportunity to encourage democracy and rules based behaviour during this period. That has certainly been a factor in the rise of Putin and Russian nationalism today. I've said previously and I'll say it again: I see direct comparisons with Versailles and the emergence of German National Socialism in the 20s and 30s.

...If those two spys [litvenenko] had been machine gunned in their living rooms watching Eastenders no one would care,...

I would entirely disagree with that; the murder by any means of an individual in the UK by foreign agents would incite public outrage.

Clear if unwritten rules concerning the behaviour of espionage personnel have long existed. In the case of Skripal, he had been released as part of an exchange of convicted spies which has previously assured a safe subsequent life.

...and the guy in sailsbury was still an active spy, he got what he could expect, unfortunately innocent people got caught up in the middle...

I find those pretty offensive comments.

Indeed, your suggestion the Skripal remained an active agent and dismissal of the consequences of Russia's use of CW on civilian streets suggests to me that you may not be quite as British as you claim.

...lets not pretend 1] those former soviet countries are worth a world war for or 2 that any other country other than America can be trusted if it actually started.

Again, that's a matter of opinion.

Perhaps Georgia wasn't; perhaps the Crimea wasn't; perhaps Russia's latest breach of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in the Kerch Straight isn't; likewise the slow, insidious encroachment at any environmental cost on the SCS by Beijing.

However, if history proves anything, it proves that aggressors and bullies need to be stood up to and internationally accepted rules defended. The Rhineland, Sudentenland and Czechoslovakia are good examples. Ultimately, the Black Sea is international waters bordered by more than just Russia, including the shores of 3 NATO nations. We - and any other nation - have every right to be there and that right needs to be both exercised and defended so that Russian arrogance and intimidation is not 'normalised.'

In summary, despite claims to the otherwise, I note subtle errors in your language and grammar, as well as some disturbing misrepresentation of facts which are increasingly familiar on ARRSE from the Russian troll community.

It would therefore be interesting to examine your IP address because I strongly suspect it could be traced directly or indirectly to St Petersburg.

Regards,
MM
 
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Yes the worlds a complicated place right now but if we'd been a bit more sympathetic towards the russians over well the last hundred and fifty years or so we might have a better relationship ( remember when we sent their fleet round the african coast because we refused to allow them to use the suez canal in 1904 and annihilation followed) i mean it was not hat long ago that Britain was bragging about how it had basically ruined russsia both financially and militarily, when the wall fell we added countries like the ones you mention under our "wing of protection" , and here we are today.


If those two spys [litvenenko] had been machine gunned in their living rooms watching Eastenders no one would care,.....and the guy in sailsbury was still an active spy, he got what he could expect, unfortunately innocent people got caught up in the middle.

don't get me wrong the Russians are world champion liars and i'd hate to live there and i have no doubt America would smash them in a conventional war within a few weeks but lets not pretend 1] those former soviet countries are worth a world war for or 2 that any other country other than America can be trusted if it actually started.


You are cherry pickng from history. Do you want to mention fighting the Russians in Crimea in 1854 or the Arctic convoys and all the much needed war material we sent to Russia (which they used but obliterated from the record).

There is something perverse and bleating about your posts.
 
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Yes the worlds a complicated place right now but if we'd been a bit more sympathetic towards the russians over well the last hundred and fifty years or so we might have a better relationship ( remember when we sent their fleet round the african coast because we refused to allow them to use the suez canal in 1904 and annihilation followed)

Perhaps shooting up British fishermen in the North Sea was an unwise move, if the Russian plan depended on Britain granting them the use of the Suez Canal?

It's as if attacking British ships, and killing British citizens, might have negative results for Russia. Who could ever have foreseen such a thing?
 
Intimidation is a dangerous game to play, especially when one side knows the reaction of the other.

The point of the exercise is to gently but firmly send a signal that the Black Sea is not a 'Russian Pond', any more than the Caribbean is an 'American pond' or the Straits of Taiwan a 'Chinese pond'

This is not Britain pretending to be an imperial power, the Duncan deployment included ships from Romania,Turkey,Greece and the Netherlands.

Allied Maritime Command - UK Command of SNMG2 comes to an end after 12 months in charge

You'll be delighted to hear that a US Navy deployment to the Black Sea is also set

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...pares-to-challenge-russia-in-black-sea-report
 
Tell that to the men who died on the Arctic convoys.

Let's not forget that from 1939 to 1941, the USSR generously supplied Hitler with oil, grain, and other strategic essentials, to the point that:-
The Soviet Union rapidly became Germany’s main source of imported animal feed. In 1940 the Soviet Union also supplied Germany with 74 per cent of its phosphates needs, 67 per cent of its asbestos imports, 65 per cent of its chromium supplies, 55 per cent of its manganese, 40 per cent of its nickel imports and 34 per cent of its imported oil.

By the autumn of 1940, Germany’s dependence on deliveries of raw materials, fuel and food from the Soviet Union was creating a positively schizophrenic situation. In trade negotiations, German machine tools were one of the means of settlement prized most highly by the Soviets. Such exports, however, were in direct conflict with the preparations of Germany’s own armed forces for the invasion of the Soviet Union. Astonishingly, rather than interrupting the Soviet deliveries to prioritize the Luftwaffe, Goering in early October 1940 ordered that, at least until 11 May 1941, deliveries to the Soviet Union, and thus to the Red Army, should have equal priority with the demands of the Wehrmacht.

By the end of 1940, the grain stocks were preoccupying even the military leadership. With regard to the food situation, General Halder noted anxiously in his diary: ‘We will swindle our way through 1941.’ Thereafter, the situation was unforeseeable. In the event, unexpected salvation arrived in early January 1941 when the Soviets more than doubled their deliveries, even agreeing to dip into their national grain reserve to meet the German demands.
Tooze, Adam. The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy. Penguin Books Ltd.

Yet, when that generosity was rewarded by a surprise German invasion, Britain was sending armaments to the USSR to help them survive.

Compare and contrast the US and British support to the USSR after Germany attacked them, to the assistance the USSR provided Britain until Barbarossa (actively supporting and supplying our enemy), and the way the Russians have airbrushed that inconvenient detail out of their history...
 
I don't think Britain ever 'bragged' about the ruinous position of Russia post the collapse of communism. If you believe otherwise, please offer some links to official statements or policy.

However, I would agree to an extent that the West missed an opportunity to encourage democracy and rules based behaviour during this period. That has certainly been a factor in the rise of Putin and Russian nationalism today. I've said previously and I'll say it again: I see direct comparisons with Versailles and the emergence of German National Socialism in the 20s and 30s.





I would entirely disagree with that; the murder by any means of an individual in the UK by foreign agents would incite public outrage.

No it wouldn't, its just using a chemical to do it does, with spies no one sees them and no one cares, death and imprisonment are a hazard of the job.




Clear if unwritten rules concerning the behaviour of espionage personnel have long existed.

yep, theirs are all scumbag cowards ours all all blonde haired heros, if you take General Melchette view.


In the case of Skripal, he had been released as part of an exchange of convicted spies which has previously assured a safe subsequent life.


He was still spying according to BBC sources, hunting with the hounds and running with the Hares. What do you make of Philby?

I find those pretty offensive comments.

Indeed, your suggestion the Skripal remained an active agent and dismissal of the consequences of Russia's use of CW on civilian streets suggests to me that you may not be quite as British as you claim.






Again, that's a matter of opinion.

Perhaps Georgia wasn't; perhaps the Crimea wasn't; perhaps Russia's latest breach of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in the Kerch Straight isn't; likewise the slow, insidious encroachment at any environmental cost on the SCS by Beijing.

However, if history proves anything, it proves that aggressors and bullies need to be stood up to and internationally accepted rules defended. The Rhineland, Sudentenland and Czechoslovakia are good examples. Ultimately, the Black Sea is international waters bordered by more than just Russia, including the shores of 3 NATO nations. We - and any other nation - have every right to be there and that right needs to be both exercised and defended so that Russian arrogance and intimidation is not 'normalised.'

In summary, despite claims to the otherwise, I note subtle errors in your language and grammar, as well as some disturbing misrepresentation of facts which are increasingly familiar on ARRSE from the Russian troll community.

It would therefore be interesting to examine your IP address because I strongly suspect it could be traced directly or indirectly to St Petersburg.

Regards,
MM


i don't care if you find what i write offensive find a safe space and let your lip wobble there.

Second, my grammar etc is because i can't be arrsed to take the time to placate you, you read what i have written and you understand it even if you don't agree with it., thats all that matters.

And we all know the real chain of command here, HMS's Captain to the Foreign Secretary, Foreign secretary to PM,PM to the Washington hotline. They are the only ones Russia respects not our dingy, and if shit gets real we want to hope they pick up the phone.
 
alternative-amp-quot-obvious-troll-is-obvious-amp-quot-meme-yavelcum_o_3902243.jpg
 
i don't care if you find what i write offensive find a safe space and let your lip wobble there.

Second, my grammar etc is because i can't be arrsed to take the time to placate you, you read what i have written and you understand it even if you don't agree with it., thats all that matters.

And we all know the real chain of command here, HMS's Captain to the Foreign Secretary, Foreign secretary to PM,PM to the Washington hotline. They are the only ones Russia respects not our dingy, and if shit gets real we want to hope they pick up the phone.

It's a shame I can't tag this as funny as well as dumb!

However, a definite Russian troll methinks.

Incidentally, HMS Duncan didn't look that 'dingy' to me at all, even when the lights were on red! :) :) :)

Regards,
MM
 
i don't care if you find what i write offensive find a safe space and let your lip wobble there.

Second, my grammar etc is because i can't be arrsed to take the time to placate you, you read what i have written and you understand it even if you don't agree with it., thats all that matters.

And we all know the real chain of command here, HMS's Captain to the Foreign Secretary, Foreign secretary to PM,PM to the Washington hotline. They are the only ones Russia respects not our dingy, and if shit gets real we want to hope they pick up the phone.

My Dear Deserter, may I offer some observations which may be beneficial.

1 - I wouldn't speak for any other site member however I find your posts juvenile and puerile.

2 - It is evident your grammar is poor. You explain that this is because you cannot be ar(r)sed to take the time. That also appears to relate to your fact checking.

3 - Please don't stamp your feet when typing a post, it upsets your co-ordination. For example, did you mean dingy or dinghy?

4 -Are you really, really sure English is your first language? Your phraseology is rather interesting and prosaic at times.

5 - Posters on here who limit access to their profile are generally posters with an agenda and a definite lack of military (Western) experience.

Please carry on...
 
i don't care if you find what i write offensive find a safe space and let your lip wobble there.

Second, my grammar etc is because i can't be arrsed to take the time to placate you, you read what i have written and you understand it even if you don't agree with it., thats all that matters.

And we all know the real chain of command here, HMS's Captain to the Foreign Secretary, Foreign secretary to PM,PM to the Washington hotline. They are the only ones Russia respects not our dingy, and if shit gets real we want to hope they pick up the phone.

A bit of a late effort for this year's SPOTY there, Spider. Good effort, sterling work.

Edited to add: I would have nominated you for that one post alone if I hadn't already voted for that other no mark, never served civilian, Meerkatz.
 
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i don't care if you find what i write offensive find a safe space and let your lip wobble there.

Second, my grammar etc is because i can't be arrsed to take the time to placate you, you read what i have written and you understand it even if you don't agree with it., thats all that matters.

And we all know the real chain of command here, HMS's Captain to the Foreign Secretary, Foreign secretary to PM,PM to the Washington hotline. They are the only ones Russia respects not our dingy, and if shit gets real we want to hope they pick up the phone.

Well done you, you get a dumb from me, which is a rare thing indeed but the above is an absolute crock.
 
They are the only ones Russia respects not our dingy, and if shit gets real we want to hope they pick up the phone.

That remark alone shows that what you know about anything maritime could be engraved on an ant's left ball.

and it's DINGHY ;

$_86.JPG


as opposed to this:

BAES_021403_940x529-1b.jpg
 
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