Warning Order! BAOR GDP Late 1980's and other things

LD17

MIA
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Thinking about it, can anyone remember how the Inf Sp Coy assets were divvied up? Milan, Mortars, SF etc?
During this time I was attached to 1BN The Royal Scots (3 Armd Div), I was a member of the LAD in Fire Support Fitter Section (FSFS). The Company was made up of a HQ Platoon element 432’s & Warrior, Mortar Platoon with 432’s, Recce Platoon with Scimitar CVR(T)’s 30mm Rarden and Anti-Tank Platoon which consisted of three sections, one in 432’s with LAW, and 2 sections of Spartan CVR(T)’s MCT (Milan Compact Turret).
Recce Platoon did exactly what it says on the tin. Anti-Tank tended to split themselves up into the 3 Rifle Company’s & Mortar Platoon normally spent their time with HQ Company waiting for fire orders from the CO. This was always dependant on the CO and what he wanted or how the battle panned out.
 
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3 Div in the 70s was reserve Div in the BAOR orbat, certainly it was in 78 based around Eiserlohn, Soest, Hemer and 2 Div was a TA division based in the North of the UK as Dad was its deputy GOC in 79 as well!
I was told by the grown ups in CP4,, that 3 div TA , on ex crusader 80, who were mobilized to BAOR from the UK, were disposable, they were to be a first line buffer zone for the first 48 hours, thus saving more seasoned and trained regulars, should it go totally tits up. Their survival rate was reckoned to be about 20% +/-.
 

LD17

MIA
During this time I was attached to 1BN The Royal Scots (3 Armd Div), I was a member of the LAD in Fire Support Fitter Section (FSFS). The Company was made up of a HQ Platoon element 432’s & Warrior, Mortar Platoon with 432’s, Recce Platoon with Scimitar CVR(T)’s 30mm Rarden and Anti-Tank Platoon which consisted of three sections, one in 432’s with LAW, and 2 sections of Spartan CVR(T)’s MCT (Milan Compact Turret).
Recce Platoon did exactly what it says on the tin. Anti-Tank tended to split themselves up into the 3 Rifle Company’s & Mortar Platoon normally spent their time with HQ Company waiting for fire orders from the CO. This was always dependant on the CO and what he wanted or how the battle panned out.
From the 1988/89 Staff College Course Precis

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Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Double entry?
Same as financial accounting - on a task org diagram anything lost by a unit to another unit had also to be shown as a gain by that receiving unit.

If I dig about my garage I might be able to show you an example from Ex CRIMSON RAMBLER 93, an ex that will cause flashbacks in any ex-Camberley ‘alumni’…
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
I noticed that too, but 19 and 60 Sqns were a part of (respectively) 4 ADTR and 2 IDTR. I'll have to take a second look at it when I get time, maybe we're missing something.
Note the 1990 date stamp though. I looked for 6 Sqn in the Arty Div only to discover it was then only an Arty Bde and that 6 had been subsumed into a regiment….

I think, it’s all a long time ago!
 
Same as financial accounting - on a task org diagram anything lost by a unit to another unit had also to be shown as a gain by that receiving unit.

If I dig about my garage I might be able to show you an example from Ex CRIMSON RAMBLER 93, an ex that will cause flashbacks in any ex-Camberley ‘alumni’…

so showing all atts and dets?
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Well, speaking of that I also have found docs that MOD was looking at options (no pun intended)for the 90’s (BEFORE the Wall came down) to pull BAOR off the FEBA and make it a two Div Counterstroke Corps. It was one of a few they were exploring. I also was able to receive a doc called the Future Size and Shape of the British Army….looks like it was written in conjunction with the MARILYN Paper/Study. Date marks it as October/early November 1989…..to quickly summarize it projected the Army to be down to 95,000 with 11 RAC & 38 Inf Bns by 2015……
That was about the time I left so obviously they thought there was no point carrying on without me at the tip of the spear.

Or maybe they felt that having weeded out the expendable rubbish, withdrawing 1 BR Corps and using it to smite a depleted / blunted Sov assault was the way ahead.
 
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Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
That was about the time I left so obviously they thought there was no point carrying on without me at the tip of the spear.

Or maybe they felt that having weeded out the expendable rubbish, withdrawing 1 BR Corps and using it to smite a depleted / blunted Sov assault was the way ahead.

Going back to the hypothetical Channel Tunnel and Reforger issue, is there any stuff released on the size of the threat posed by people like Corbyn wondering in to Dover harbour with a rucksack full of Semtex to hamper UK to Europe troop and material reinforcements? It always struck me as ludicrously ambitious expecting to be able to have that go anything near as planned. As an example, I’d imagine the machinery that lowers ramps to the right height for loading a ferry could be taken out with a handful of sand in a gearbox if you knew what you were doing?
Given that we still plan to deploy armour via the tunnel (and have done so) I think speculating and posting any information about that wouldn’t be sensible.
 
Given that we still plan to deploy armour via the tunnel (and have done so) I think speculating and posting any information about that wouldn’t be sensible.
Duly noted. To be fair, I had no idea. Post edited to avoid someone being tempted / as unaware as me.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

LD17

MIA
Excellent thread BTW

Silly question...

My Bn had a R Sigs Rear Link Det attached to us when we returned to UK (Colchester and 19 Field Force) from Gibraltar in 79. The RLD managed all the comms back to Bde while the Sig Pl (with your truly) worked on the bn comms. The RLD deployed to NI with us and also on major exercises.

Who supplied the Rear Link dets?
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I did my Signals courses (Standard 1 and Regt Sigs Instructor) at the School of Infantry at Warminster in 1979 and 1980. Both courses required being able to use morse code.

I don't recall seeing any TA soldiers on the courses except for a TA snco who was practrically full time permanent staff at his unit.

Was morse taught to TA infantry signallers?
 
There were a few left around, covering things like expeditionary ops, but I think they mostly disappeared in Germany when Clansman came in, since VRC 353/BID 250 was unit operated unlike its predecessor. As someone commented up thread Royal Signals RLDs were manned by a mix of Radio Telegraphists and Radio Ops, both of which were morse trained back in the day, so there was an alternative to secure VHF when 3SA took that out. I have a vague memory of Class 1 infantry signallers being morse trained until the 80s as well, but my memory might be awry.

Just spotted this - yes infanntry signallers were morse trained at least until 1980. In my battalion yu were trained in morse as soon as you completed the basic signals course and joined the platoon. You couldn't go on the School of Inf courses unless you had already reached a certain level of competency in morse at your unit. IIRC I think it was about 8-10 wpm. The Warminster courses ramped up the training and most of the exercises included a morse element.

All I can remember now is CQDE 0A... :)
 
I have a vague memory of Class 1 infantry signallers being morse trained until the 80s as well, but my memory might be awry.

Might have been an individual Battalion thing but I was taught morse on my Infantry Standard 2 sigs course in 1981. Standard 1 sigs course was only for people in the Sigs Platoon.

* Posted on the basis that Standard 1 & 2 are the same as Class 1 & 2
 

LD17

MIA
@Rodney2q
Sorry I didn't provide the context, that snip is from the TA ORBAT Review, specifically a two page handwritten paper
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Looks like notes from a meeting...
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As I peruse, if I find more I'll post
 
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