War scares off 10,000 TA recruits

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by vandyke, Oct 29, 2006.

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  1. http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1599542006

    Is this Good or Bad for the British Army?

    On one hand i say its good, like it says in the report you get rid of those who see TA as a Drinking Club. This will make the TA a smaller but more professional force.

    Yet on the other hand you maybe losing some good guys that just dont want to fight in Iraq. But make excellent soldiers and are extremely beneficial to their unit.

    I am a reservist (not TA) and thankfully my contract states that i can only be called upon if Britain is under attack, or words to that effect. I would quite happily fight for the defence of my country but have no interest to carry out US foreign policy.

    I feel it is now time to bring back the Home service force (HSF), Each TA company has an HSF attached to it. Men in the HSF are only liable for Home defence.
    Obviously HSF would attract a lower rate of pay and bounty.

    By reinstating the HSF we would maintain a strong force in readiness should we ever need to call upon them for home defence or more likely in this day and age to assist the emergency services during terrorist attacks.

    We wouldn't even need to have seperate units ie. TA and HSF just allow everyone to serve as one but each individual on a differant contract. Soldiers could move between full TA and HSF contracts should there personal circumstances change.

    How does everyone else feel about this, Did anyone on here serve in HSF when it was around?
  2. msr

    msr LE

    "A lot of the people who saw the TA as little more than a drinking club have left in the last few years," said Louise Heywood, head of the UK Armed Forces Programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) and a TA officer herself.


  3. Can you say "tour dodging coward" how do you build a unit when you have soldiers who will never go on tour?Its bad enough now with some who do multiple tours others who have done 1 and those who haven't gone and may never go.Add a catergory of soldier who will never go is just silly imho.
    what trf will they wear a white feather?
    A HSF defends us from what?If people want to soldier without the risk of having to go somewhere unpleasent for a pointless reason .I suggest the
    acf or airsoft.
  4. I think i would rather go to the front line than eat a guga.

    But back on topic. I know i would happily join the TA if it was only Home defence
  5. I agree with Vandyke, but disagree with Louise Heywood, in the units I've served with guys and girls went to Telic, a lot left afterwards due to family pressure (You've done your war, spend more time at home), many left after being mobilised as IRs not as a unit, commanders had always said mobilisation would happen as a unit, guess they were wrong eh? Many toms saw this as an insult to the TA, more so when you consider how many were mobilised. You also have to consider the fact that TA are still treated as third class troops, even today some training camps are refused as the cadets are training here! Shortage of equipment( no boots for 4 months), closing of TA centres and lack of vehicles the list is never ending. Anyone who feels that the war scared off 10,000 recruits has not tried the recruiting system and spent some time on the ground, no RTC places until Mar 07, do recruits really want to hang around for 6 months or expect a system to take 12 months start to finish? I've seen a unit get 40-50 recruits a year and lose over half due to lack of equipment and places on courses. War my arrse.
  6. I disagree Woody.
    The HSF had been around for years, were known as the Home guard before that.
    At the moment the TA seem to be getting used as an additional regular unit.
    The HSF worked alongside the TA succesfully for years
    It isnt about Tour dodging, What is demoralising is when guys do multiple tours and come back to see the same guys larging it up in the bar and getting the same pay for it.
    By recreating an HSF force. people know where they stand and the country maintains an effective reserve force.
    The TA was never designed to bolster the regulars on operations like this.
  7. I also think it has a great deal to do with bad recruiting, bad advertising and, as said above, bad use of the TA on mobilisation. I know personally of soldiers mis-used until someone twigged that they had the right skills.

    Bad management of units and bad use of personnel have lost more than recrutiing teams failed to recruit.
  8. msr

    msr LE


    Just because they have been around for years is no reason to keep them.

    You haven't answered Woody's question: An HSF defends us from what?

  9. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    I actually have thought about this recently, I was in the TA for a brief period and I'm muslim. I was watching some of the videos of Helmand the other day, and although I often wish I was still in the TA the possibility of fighting muslims would majorly contravene my religious obligations and duties (not that I'm the most pious of believers anyway but slotting fellow muslims is surely not what Muhammad would prescribe). It would be very difficult indeed. This said if I felt that the country in which my tree has grown for centuries was threatened, and the people therein I think it would be easier. The last thing I want to do is fight for Washington. Actually any deployment that didn't include killing Muslims (as suggested) would be fine, its less who is shooting at me than who I'd have to shoot at.
  10. I dont see any guy who has not done a tour larging it up in the bar normally the reverse :D.The hsf I knew was a bunch of older guys who were
    exregular or ta .Did a patrols competion against them once we beat them on fitness watching them do an assault course was funny .Their shooting was
    at a completly diffrent level though :oops: .
    What would the point of raising a HSF be ?The need is for deployeable
    soldiers .At the present moblisation is inteligent moblisation so you only get a letter if you can /want to go.An hsf would turn the ta to the drinking club it was supposedly of old .Though all the ta units I served with which had a culture of drinking also worked hard when they had to.And would have readily moblised at least a platoon out of each coy if asked too for operations
    .The call never came apart from the odd s type .
  11. All I can say Nehustan is thank God (whichever one you believe in) you are no longer in the TA. I for one would not liked someone with your views covering my back and would hate to think that there is anyone serving with the same views as yourself.If you choose to serve in the British Army be it as a Reg or as TA, then your allegiance is sworn to The Queen , Her heirs and successors and to to THIS country, regardless of the religion of the enemy. Also, above all that, your loyalty MUST lie with those you serve beside. If someone hesitates in a fire-fight, because of the religion of the enemy that is shooting at them, and a comrade is killed or injured because of that hesitation, I wouldn't want to be the person having to live with THAT on my conscience.
  12. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    I totally agree Halomonkey you just outlined my very thoughts, and that would be the problem, the hesitation would get me and my colleagues killed for sure.
  13. msr

    msr LE

    So why would they be trying to kill you? And why are they killing so many of their 'brothers' in Iraq?

  14. Well guess it would keep some walts and wannabes off the streets and out of the pubs on a saturday .Much like the ta does now :D .

    Nehustan if its wrong for muslims to kill one another ?How does that square with iran/iraq war and the afgan fighting amongst themselves .Not to mention the iraqes killing one another ?Or is it like christianity though "shall not murder un
    less you can come up with reason to do it" :?
  15. Sorry woody, I disagree the HSF would be just the ticket for CCRF etc. No matter how i sell it the younger toms don't believe in CCRF, no matter how you dress it up they are not that interested in it, the more we move towards rented transit vans and mininbuses the less they stay. FFS even the police have thier own AGVs now so what are we doing? TA warfighting etc HSF CCRF and if they want to drink let em, I'm not going to tell Pte Smith (ex RSM 1 Para) to stop :wink: