War news and commentary

As Woopert is keeping the Int cell thread to just news headlines, fell free to stick News Headlines and commentary in here.

Rumsfeld says the POW's shown on Al-Jazeera may not be American soldiers

......."and the band played - You can believe it if you like"

However, they may actually be voluntary human shields, that the evil Iraqi propoganda gits, have got to dress up like American soldiers?

If that gets used, I want my cut
So does that mean we can spout off about, unprofessional, gung ho, cowboy, big egoed spam Ba@tards continually slotting our blokes.

I can find no excuse for this mornings incident with the GR4 and the Patriot, condolencies the the crews families and colleagues, was wondering if the wreckage still had the bang seats in?

I don't think it matters wether or not we Squawk IFF or carry a big 'don't shoot at us arrow' I believe the trigger happy yanks wil still open up on our callsigns.

Rumsfeld expressed sorrow for the feelings of the man on the button of the missile......................no mention of the blokes on the recieving end of his act of murderous negligence.
Saw the Marines in action in Umm Qasr again tonight, you remember, that town the Spams said they'd cleared out?

Royal Marines in OBUA in Al Faw ,lots of heart stopping stuff, with chanting prayers for their safe deliverance like a mantra. Same for God's own regiment, and assorted followers, who even as we speak , are going in.

Keep safe DM, Mav and the lads , nothing heroic, let the Spams do that.

As for the fcuking journalists. Thanks for not observing OPSEC , or maybe you knew what you were doing?

The showing of the dead bodies was inappropriate, but at the risk of upsetting some skulking spam refugee from the other means  -  We showed dead bodies of Iraqis . It's not nice, it's not proper, but it happens. As for the POW pictures thing. We showed theirs, they showed ours . One all, let's get back to the geneva convention.

All of us remember the images of Marines lying face down in the road, hands behind their heads, while some capable looking Argentinian gentlemen, took down the flag.

And what did that do to us? The entire British nation wanted the blood of the men who humiliated our marines and Flag.

The US administration need to go grab a cup of "wake the fcuk up" This is WAR . That properly unpleasant sh1tty thing, that friends and loved ones of ours are operating under at the moment, with ROE as restrictive as over the water by the way the fcuking media bang on.

All Rumsfelds sudden attacks of amnesia, and "I am not aware of any POW's"  - Lying sack of shit , is not helping the fighting man and woman of any service.

Wake up Stavros, this ain't the fight you ducked out of, this ain't some corporate battle, or plastic models on a big map. These are the lives of men and women you are pissing about with, trying to act the humanitarian, whilst running your own agenda. I think the reality of it all , is finally sinking in. This is evidenced, by the sea change in the US rhetoric, from "Une piece de Piss" to "This is a long haul" , which, the British planners, and others , have been saying since this was first proposed.

As a retired American Admiral said today "The news of the Tornado, is probably on Page 684, with the by-line, of an American Officer going postal in Camp Penn"

There are prisoners, your servicemen and women expect you to say "We are going to get our people back, if we have to tear down Baghdad brick by brick" They want to know, that if they go into the bag, their Secretary of Defense won't be saying "Prisoners? what Prisoners?" Smacks of deniabilty, and trying to save your own administrations carcass.

Whatever you say, about "Isolated pockets of resistance" and "Gangs of gunmen" someone in Iraq, is shooting at our troops, and the more they shoot at us, the more the others are encouraged to resist. I am still waiting for the garlands of flowers that Dick Cheney promised our troops, for liberating the poor oppressed Iraqi people , as opposed to the fcuking artillery and silkworms that a grateful Iraqi nation is currently tossing at their liberators.
US military officials have confirmed 12 American soldiers are missing after Iraqi TV broadcast images of dead troops and prisoners.

Pentagon sources said the dead soldiers appeared to have been executed.

They told Sky News the soldiers had bullet holes in their heads.
This next few lines must on NO account be taken as a dig or a view of lack of backing for our blokes in the desert


I watched with fists clenched, Bushes & Blairs speech regarding the liberation of the Iraqi people.

If this is the case surely our blokes should be being welcomed into the various cities over there and only be meeting very small pockets of Hard line Saddam supporting resistance.

If these people are prepared to stand and fight and not give us the open arm welcome that some idiots were expecting the question has to be asked....Do they want to be liberated?

What is the real reasoning for our presence in an oil rich, flattened country?

I wonder how the shares for the Companies holding the contracts for the rebuild are doing. I wonder how closely linked Mr Bush is to those companies.

Couple the pathetic lies and the fact that the SPAMS are slotting our blokes and journalists and I think we can say we have been stitched with another Yankie Clusterf@ck.

Of course I wish for the safe return of all troops and especially the Brits, perhaps a simple question to the Iraqi people should be posed........Do you want to be liberated? If the answer is no then perhaps Tony should find the balls to tell George he is on his on and pull our boys out.

I don't want to see any more of our troops killed just so George Bush Senior can have drinks cabinet in down town Baghdad


After just 4 days of war, count the FCUK ups, I dont want to sound pedantic but I told you so, you have to remember, it isnt just about liberation, there is a bigger picture, one of oil, globalisation, so called democratic expansion.
Now the Iraqis yes will fight, some will fight for Saddam, but more will fight the infidel, and this is something that some westerners cannot comprehend, America is not just disliked it is despised throughout the middle east, what you have to think is WHY, when you can confront that question and answer it honestly, you will understand. The Muslim faith will spur some on to fight to the bitter end, and scenes like the American missile attack on a bus in Syria wont help matters, dont forget we see dead, they see martyrs. As for shares in companies, Donald Rumsfeld does have a share holding in some contractors, couple this with all the American administrators, from President down who hold some power or, holding in the major oil companies, you see some jigsaw pieces fitting together, Tony Blair has swallowed the biggest lie, and he has tried to sell it to our nation, I do think he honestly believes with passion that what the forces are doing is right, but as we all know passion can sometimes cloud the truth.

Before you go spouting I told you so, read back through some of my posts.

I agree with the majority of your posts, however the way you put it a cross on a military forum is a little tongue in cheek, especially when the vast majority of us went last time or are there now.

Yes the man should be removed, yes the Iraqi people deserve better, just not in this way, although I suppose we are there now and there is little we can about it. Although as I said before If they WANT  better they have a funny way of showing it

I am reserving my opinions as I don't want to be categorised as a hippy or a protestor, but come on......we aint all mugs

UK troops face 'Saddam zealots'

As one senior officer put it, we had the Iraqis at our staff training colleges in the 1950s, 60s and 70s - this is classic counter-insurgency

No sh1t, you think?

The British are reluctant to fight in Basra any more than any other urban area.

But military sources clearly believe there are several hundred hard-core, well-armed Saddam Hussein loyalists holed up in the city.

That was why there were air raids over Basra on Saturday night.

But as one British officer confided, it is very difficult to bomb people's hearts.

If the Head sheds are interested in how Saddam and his coterie intend to prosecute this war



[bold]Let us first consider the question: Who are the combatants in guerrilla warfare? On one side we have a group composed of the oppressor and his agents, the professional army, well armed and disciplined, in many cases receiving foreign help as well as the help of the bureaucracy in the employ of the oppressor. On the other side are the people of the nation or region involved. It is important to emphasize that guerrilla warfare is a war of the masses, a war of the people. The guerrilla band is an armed nucleus, the fighting vanguard of the people. It draws its great force from the mass of the people themselves. The guerrilla band is not to be considered inferior to the army against which it fights simply because it is inferior in firepower. Guerrilla warfare is used by the side which is supported by a majority but which possesses a much smaller number of arms for use in defense against oppression[/bold]


Something which the US command would be advised to go back and read, seeing as they wrote it


The human shields really are on drugs. Either that or spouting Iraqi propaganda.http://www.humanshields.org/

Latest News From Human Shields And Around The Globe

Sunday 23rd March, 2003 18:06 +0300

Latest report from Human Shield in Baghdad - "a plane shot down, just outside the press centre as I just happened to be there, was getting interview by Canada T.V with Reuters. They were burning down the grass trying to find the other pilot, caught a female British pilot. The atmosphere was one of pandemonium and exhileration."

Claims to have seen it when we now know it was rubbish.

And another one from the BBC.


Are these people really that stupid that they thought it would stop the bombs? Don't bother to answer that one. ::)

The final sentence is very revealing.

They said officials asked them to shield strategic sites rather than sites such as schools and hospitals.
Did they really think it would be any different? ::)
NOt sure what makes my blood boil more

Stupid lying cretin human shields


Idiot Ministers of the Crown. Did anyone else see C4 news tonight?

He lied, he knew it, Jon Snow knew it too. How much longer do we have to put up with this clown?


>Latest report from Human Shield in Baghdad - "a plane >shot down, just outside the press centre as I just >happened to be there, was getting interview by Canada >T.V with Reuters. They were burning down the grass >trying to find the other pilot, caught a female British pilot. >The atmosphere was one of pandemonium and >exhileration."

>Claims to have seen it when we now know it was rubbish.

Exactly, but did you see how many people it tied up looking for them? Must have been hundreds for several hours, not to mention the thousands of rounds also expended....


"Officers within the Scots DG admitted the brigade as a whole vastly underestimated the likely restistance and the loyalty locals would show to the regime"  (www.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2882099.stm this does not link directly as I do not know how to do it).  
Interestingly there are reports that the Fedyaeen are reinforced by Iraqi/Arab merceneries/mujahadeen who fought in Grozny and the Checheno-Ingush hence the resistance.  Still I am sure that it is early days yet.  I would say look back at any campaign we have fought in and it would appear that in the early days we often underestimated the resistance we would face.  On top of this I would imagine that no matter how much training one conducts beforehand the realities of war dictate that one reasseses how business is conducted and that this takes time to materialise on the ground in the way that things are conducted.  I have utmost faith in our troops and troops of the coalition and am sure that given the time to adapt the troops will the do job in hand.
It is all rather strange at moment, I feel like some sick voyeur when I have the luxery of typing this from PC and taking a number two on my porcelain throne, wiping my ARRSE on duvet soft bog roll.  Especially when I have just read the best piece on the war so far by an embedded journo with the Royal Marines who describes the difficulties in just conducting the basic neccessities in life, eating, drinking and sleeping.  (www.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2883229.stm again not linked).

My only fear is that we have been led down the path by our politicians.  I note that last night on Newsnight a General who commanded a Division in the last Gulf War was extremely scathing of the US Administration in its preparation for war by basically not giving Franks everything he required and by saying that the political will is not there to allow the troops the free reign to conduct operations in the way that is required.

I guess what I am trying to say in a rather confused manner is that I am sick of all these pundits and journalists throwing in their tuppence worth who seem to detracting from what men and women are having to put up with and questioning every move that is made.  It is a war for christs sake.  Do these bloody people really expect everything to go like clockwork?  Listening to the radio it would seem that the journos want it all to go wrong just so that they can feed like vultures off the misery of everyone else.  I would be happy if the military imposed a reporting ban or at least controlled it a great deal more than is being done at the moment.  Believe me journalists are rapidly replacing lawyers and estate agents as my least popular people.  The embeds seem ok, they report very specific facts often after the event and will due to the nature of their position show some loyalty to those they are with.  It is the tossers elsewhere that really piss me off.

Remove if not appropriate.

But, journalists will report on, or twist whatever they see, to sell more newspapers/air time. Their considerations of our finer feelings, are not particularly high. This may change with the embedded ones, as they share the privations of the frontline.

Yes it hasn't been going exactly according to plan. I'll oversimplyfy here. The problem is caused by YESMEN Generals , who will tell Rumsfeld anything he wants to hear. Tommy Franks tried to criticize, and point out the job couldn't get done with less than a certain number. He got vocal, the Washington Post reveals his expense accounts are irregular, and his wife attends security briefings. How strange. Admiral Kummel has some things to say, and lo and behold...Removed from post for having an affair with another officer
(Young, fresh , female tight butt - Way to go Bob)

Now as long as you have the yesmen in charge, who are more concerned about their careers and future employment, and see the TV as a tool to promote themselves, you will have a problem - I draw the Juries attention to the Minister for Defence, who needs sacking now, because quite apart from the fact he looks a psycophantic knobber, he's a liar as well. And when the Minister in charge of the warry bits is prepared to lie, often,  then people are going to get hurt


Plagerised from another site but worthwile posting here.

"You just arrived," Ajami Saadoun Khlis of the southern Iraqi city of Safwan tells London's Guardian. "You're late. What took you so long? God help you become victorious. I want to say hello to Bush, to shake his hand. We came out of the grave." He lost his 29-year-old son to Saddam's thugs; the younger man "was executed in July 2001, accused of harbouring warm feelings for Iran."

The Telegraph reports from Umm Qasr, another southern Iraqi locale:

"We never wanted to fight--only the diehards did," said one Iraqi, as they grabbed at water bottles and clasped their palms as if in prayer, begging for food. . . .

One man pulled up his shirt sleeve and held up his right hand. Two fingers had been hacked off and his upper arm was criss-crossed with scars.

"This is the price of defiance--of trying to run away," he said, his eyes beseeching. He held up a torn gas mask that had no air canister. "We have one. We draw straws for it. We know if the British and American soldiers leave as they did before, and Saddam survives, he will gas the town." To make sure we understood, he drew his finger swiftly across his throat.

The Times of London describes a horrific scene after a slave revolt:

Iraqi conscripts shot their own officers in the chest yesterday to avoid a fruitless fight over the oil terminals at al-Faw. British soldiers from 40 Commando's Charlie Company found a bunker full of the dead officers, with spent shells from an AK47 rifle around them.

Stuck between the US Seals and the Royal Marines, whom they did not want to fight, and a regime that would kill them if they refused, it was the conscripts' only way out.

And another Guardian report, from Baghdad, notes that civilians have been largely untouched by the shocking and awesome bombardment of the Iraqi capital: "So long as the rest of Baghdad remains almost unscathed, ordinary Iraqis appear relatively buoyant, as they reach for the possibility that maybe this war will be less punishing than they had feared."

Meanwhile, some of those "human shields" came to their senses after arriving in Iraq. United Press International has one such report:

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

The Telegraph has a first-person account from one Daniel Pepper, an American resident of London, who says he "was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam":

I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad--a taxi driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained that I was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war bad, Iraq good." He looked at me with an expression of incredulity.

As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken English about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the President spoken of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money went into Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your whole family.

It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it was the secret police trying to trick me but later I got the impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am not with the UN, I'm not with the CIA--I just can't help you."

Wonders never cease--some of these "useful idiots" may turn out to be useful after all.







Shame it wasn't a 617 Tornado.

I think the USAF boy knew exactly what he was doing, good for him. If the Patriot crew realised they were locked up, I guess they realised it was an allied aircraft. Unfortunately, it means the CIS are still not in place. Or at the very least, a rapid overhaul of Patriot engagement rules needs to happen
Both KIA British Soldiers named

One from 2 RTR , the other from the Black Watch

Reports of BritFor firing in support of an uprising in Basra, Please God, let it be true, and the lads don't have to go in.


Two British soldiers killed by 'friendly fire'

Two British soldiers have been killed in a so-called friendly fire incident outside Basra.
The two soldiers from the Queen's Royal Lancers were killed when their Challenger tank came under fire early on Tuesday morning.

Two others were seriously injured.

A British military spokesman said: "Regardless of training, planning and other measures, in this type of operation in the heat of battle there is always the risk that such incidents might always occur."

The spokesman said the incident happened during a period of multiple engagements with Iraqi forces on the outskirts of Basra.

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