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War heros daughter facing arrest for tackling yobs

#1
From the Daily Mail 27/12/2007

War hero's daughter facing arrest for tackling yobs who 'trashed war memorial'

By LUKE SALKELD


When she spotted yobs vandalising a war memorial garden, Julie Lake sprang into action.

As the daughter of a Second World War RAF pilot – and granddaughter of one of the fallen in the 1914-18 war – she felt it was her duty to intervene. But, after giving the main culprit a talking- to and a 'cuff round the ear', she finds herself facing the prospect of being arrested for assault.

Yesterday Mrs Lake accused police of failing to follow up her complaints about graffiti and other hooliganism in the memorial garden.

Julie Lake was upset at the constant defacing of the memorial

"The memorial is a sacred place – it's like a grave," said the 50-year-old.

"How dare these youngsters tarnish the memories of those who made a sacrifice for future generations?

"I've called the police and I've tried to talk to these kids, but I've got nowhere.

"I lost my temper in complete frustration after two years of patiently trying to get something done and immediately the police are after me. It's ridiculous.

"I did not go up to these boys intending to hit anyone but they when they started shouting abuse at me and my husband, Peter, who is recovering from cancer, I just snapped."

She said that 15 youths surrounded her and mockingly asked if her husband, who was in their car, was going to rescue her.

"I saw red and gave the ringleader a slap on the cheek," she added. "He was just laughing and said 'That's assault'.

"Then they took my car registration and rang the police. They all know their rights, they just don't care about anyone else's."

She said many of the older residents of her village – Mangotsfield near Bristol – were too scared to venture out at night because of the yobs.

Gangs of teenagers wearing hooded tops have carried out a series of attacks on the pretty memorial garden with its sombre stone cross.

They have daubed offensive graffiti on the stone, ridden their bikes over wreaths and carved their names into wooden benches.

A spokesman for Avon and Somerset Police confirmed the force is investigating an alleged assault on a 15- year-old boy.

He admitted however that Mangotsfield has a problem with youth vandalism.

Inspector Gus Krouwel said: 'Neighbourhood police regularly receive complaints about groups of around eight young people gathering by the war memorial, drinking and leaving litter.

"I do appreciate that people may get frustrated with this sort of situation but the appropriate response is to work with agencies like the police and local authority to find solutions."

Mrs Lake will voluntarily attend a police station next month to be formally arrested. She could be charged with assault which carries a maximum penalty of six months in prison or a £5,000 fine.

But she said she was prepared to take any punishment she is given to make a point about the effects of anti-social behaviour.

"The yobs have stopped going to the war memorial as much – but this is what it has taken," she said.

"I'll go to prison if I have to, because this is not about me, it is about the whole community who are scared to leave their homes.

"I know the lad I got hold of was the most persistent offender.

"I gave him what the police would call a cuff round the ear and threw his bike into the ground."

Mrs Lake, who works in sales, said the example of her father, who was based in wartime South Africa, had inspired her to take action.

She said: "My father and grandfather serving in the forces have made me very passionate about honouring our soldiers and what they sacrificed.

"My family told me never to shrink from a challenge and although I don't condone what I did, I hope some good comes out of it."

Mrs Lake's 63-year-old husband, a retired airman, also lost a grandfather in the First World War.
 
#3
Inspector Gus Krouwel said: 'Neighbourhood police regularly receive complaints about groups of around eight young people gathering by the war memorial, drinking and leaving litter.

"I do appreciate that people may get frustrated with this sort of situation but the appropriate response is to work with agencies like the police and local authority to find solutions."
So the old girl complains for 2 years (2 FUCKING YEARS) but this is not seen as enough by Inspector Plods Wallop Krouwel?

Mr Krouwell (not Inspector because that would mean I have some respect for you or your useless force), you do not appreciate the fact that people get a little frustrated of this situation at all, if you did you would have acted within those 2 years.

Perhaps the MOD would like to take ownership of all War Memorials in this country. Then anyone abusing them would come under Military Justice or any Squaddie walking past could kick the feck out of the little scum bags and ensure they start earning respect.

As for the Avon and Somerset Police Service... I think its about time you got of your fat lardy arrses and did something.

BUCKING PISSED OFF
 
#4
Redshaggydog said:
Inspector Gus Krouwel said: 'Neighbourhood police regularly receive complaints about groups of around eight young people gathering by the war memorial, drinking and leaving litter.

"I do appreciate that people may get frustrated with this sort of situation but the appropriate response is to work with agencies like the police and local authority to find solutions."
So the old girl complains for 2 years (2 FUCKING YEARS) but this is not seen as enough by Inspector Plods Wallop Krouwel?

Mr Krouwell (not Inspector because that would mean I have some respect for you or your useless force), you do not appreciate the fact that people get a little frustrated of this situation at all, if you did you would have acted within those 2 years.

Perhaps the MOD would like to take ownership of all War Memorials in this country. Then anyone abusing them would come under Military Justice or any Squaddie walking past could kick the feck out of the little scum bags and ensure they start earning respect.

As for the Avon and Somerset Police Service... I think its about time you got of your fat lardy arrses and did something.

BUCKING PISSED OFF
Whilst I deplore the actions of the youths involved and agree that the response, or more accurately, the lack of a Police response is lamentable, I regret that my take on the events as they have been reported are not likely to prove to be very popular.

I agree that the police should of reacted to every reported incident of damage being caused to/or anti social behaviour being committed in the vacinity of the war memorial.

Whether we like it or not the Police do not have the resources to turn out to every incident, as a priority, such as this. I agree with all of you and can hear the comments made by fellow arrsers as I write. It's not right and it's distasteful, but it's a fact.

The current government will tell us that they are the party of law and order, having 'In real terms' increased the level of police officers, quoting a whole manner of statistics, if only to muddy the waters.

But recently, a reduction in armed officers, the implimentation of even more target driven initiatives leaves the little manpower that the Police have, even less time to spend on the ground.

I don't know if any of you saw the recent Panorama programme on that very subject. It was that sensitive that one of the Home Office ministers, McNulty, (I think) openly tried to ridicule this former Police Officer in the House of Commons. He later, had to retract his statement and apologise. It was therefore a bit of a sensitive issue.

There is also a moritorium in many forces on recruitment.

My local force in Yorkshire will take a 3% budget reduction this year, the fallout being that retiring police officers and those who discontinue their service for whatever reason, (Probably because they are fed up), will not be replaced for at least 12 months.

I had personal experience of this inaction recently when three young men, (I am being very, very generous, in my description), tried to run me over, (For a laugh), whilst I was cycling back from the Gym one afternoon. They did so, so they could record the incident on a mobile telephone, presumably to put it on a website, such a youtube. (Although I have yet to find the footage).

I telephoned the police at the point of ridicule, and despite telling the operator that the men were still there, in the car and still posed a threat, I was informed that there were no officers immediately available. To try and go to a populated area and stay on the phone.

I was not seen until the Thurday morning. (The incident happened on a Tuesday) and I had to go to the Police Station in person. None, (Police Officers) were available to come to me.

It was explained to me by a senior officer, that other incidents at the time took priority. Was not happy, but how can you argue with that.

I was not injured, (Except for my pride), so I took the explanation at face value.

Until Policing in general becomes an election issue, nothing, IMHO, it is not going to change.

As usual, the Police are too blame. No mention of the kids parents, or the off licence who probably sold them booze, spray cans, and god know's whatever else.

No mention either of follow up visits which would of been made by the Neighbourhood Team. Albeit late, but better late than never. I am sorry, I do not believe that no Police involvement took place over a period of two years.

The lack of such support, would of only have gone unreported in an account written by a journalist, who probably for the right reasons (Highlighting, the pensioners plight), felt that the incident would benefit from a little artists licence or 'under reporting'. We see that in every paper, everyday about our colleagues in the Armed Forces.

This brave lady, who lets not forget heralds from a different era, and has the memories of her ancestors to protect, would be used to a time when a good crack round the ear was considered appropriate. Unfortunately, in todays world, such behaviour is not tolerated.

Should it be allowed, to my mind yes, but that view is out of date and is also pointless, because it is no longer tolerated. Parents in my view should shoulder a lot of the blame, but that's another story. No one can shout, or even look at a child/kid/youth in a sideways manner nowheredays, without the offsprings parents becoming a human version of 'Alien'. In the old days and we have all heard the tales, the parents used to repeat the smack for coming to someones attention.

Had I picked up my bike, at the time of my incident, thrown it at the car and battered all three of them, I would of been arrested too. That's what stopped me in my tracks. In other words, in a split second I considered an action and realised the potential consequences. I am of course from a different generation.

The police, who we as members of the general public, ask to be impartial, have to act on the information available to them, particularly when they were not there to witness the incident. (I know that's a mute point, as they did not turn up, but...)

I know from experience, that Police Officers used to be able to say to individuals, "you hit him, he hit you, we have a choice, we report you both for assault, or you both go home and forget about it".

People used to choose the latter, until one day people started to come back and say no I wan't to make a complaint and then complain about the inaction of the officer concerned. Despite the fact he had used his own judgement, (Discretion), he would then have a complaint made against him, for not following the complaints properly. There ended the discretion.

Anyway in ending, would I liked to of seen the Lady hit the Chav, your damn right. Do I think she was right, no I don't. But I think given the circumstances she will not be hard done by.

And before anyone asks I am not a Police Officer, (Although I hope to be) and until you as members of the public start demanding the Police Service you deserve, as you do on so many other subjects on this site.

You will get the service you deserve. Now logging off before my computer blows up from the incoming.
 
#5
Simple, give the Police power to impose on the spot fines, payable immediately. If the young scrote doesn't have the cash right away then they are arrested until someone else comes up with their fine. All money taken in goes back into the Force. Give the Police power to give appropriate physical punishment to unruly youths, make the parents of under 16s financially responsible for their behaviour. If they vandalise something, then the cash for repairs comes out of their parent swages or benefits. Persistant offenders have benefits stopped or wages witheld and an allowance given for basic living expenses.

Basically stop pandering to the do gooder liberal brigade who blame crime on everything but the little sod commiting it.
 
#6
mac_uk said:
Simple, give the Police power to impose on the spot fines, payable immediately. If the young scrote doesn't have the cash right away then they are arrested until someone else comes up with their fine. All money taken in goes back into the Force. Give the Police power to give appropriate physical punishment to unruly youths, make the parents of under 16s financially responsible for their behaviour. If they vandalise something, then the cash for repairs comes out of their parent swages or benefits. Persistant offenders have benefits stopped or wages witheld and an allowance given for basic living expenses.

Basically stop pandering to the do gooder liberal brigade who blame crime on everything but the little sod commiting it.
Well said.
 
#7
Notty, good and well thought out post, but here's where it gets a bit messy.
In the 13 yrs since I left the Army, I have seen the police forces decimated by Govt bean counters. My first job after leaving was as a pub manager, so I was expecting to see plod at odd times during the day. But lo, the day I needed them, it took an hour for them to arrive, result - one totalled pub, totally trashed and this was after pressing panic alarms. My faith in the police has gone downhill since and to my amazement, a vast majority of people think the same. It doesn't matter how much we badger the powers that be to do something, it always boils down to finances and until this Govt actually releases the purse strings, the situation will remain the same. The Govt doesn't listen to the voting public until it comes to election time and then it promises the earth to win the election. Of course, once the election has been won, it's back to the same old story. Until money is plowed into the police, nothing is going to change. For this Govt to take notice of the general population, it needs a major kick up the arrse, something along the lines of the end of V for Vendetta, the public to rise up and face the police just to see how far they'd push it, imho, I reckon that the police would just cave in as the last thing they want on their conscience is more unwarranted bloodshed. Perhaps then things might start happening.
If a coup were to be declared, I reckon that a few people would be leaving these shores and I'm not on about the indigenous population. Seeing benefits disappear before your face would have that kind of reaction and perhaps people would stop seeing this country for the soft touch it has become for one and all. The police need to pick themselves up and sort their priorities out and stop looking for an easy life and relying on various pieces of legislation to prevent them from doing the job they get paid for. And the soft headed liberals need to wake up and smell the coffee, get their collective heads out of their arrses and take a good look at what they have done to this once great country.

Quote from V for Vendetta - "The people should not be afraid of their Govt, the Govt should be afraid of their people."
 
#8
saintstone said:
Notty, good and well thought out post, but here's where it gets a bit messy.
In the 13 yrs since I left the Army, I have seen the police forces decimated by Govt bean counters. My first job after leaving was as a pub manager, so I was expecting to see plod at odd times during the day. But lo, the day I needed them, it took an hour for them to arrive, result - one totalled pub, totally trashed and this was after pressing panic alarms. My faith in the police has gone downhill since and to my amazement, a vast majority of people think the same. It doesn't matter how much we badger the powers that be to do something, it always boils down to finances and until this Govt actually releases the purse strings, the situation will remain the same. The Govt doesn't listen to the voting public until it comes to election time and then it promises the earth to win the election. Of course, once the election has been won, it's back to the same old story. Until money is plowed into the police, nothing is going to change. For this Govt to take notice of the general population, it needs a major kick up the arrse, something along the lines of the end of V for Vendetta, the public to rise up and face the police just to see how far they'd push it, imho, I reckon that the police would just cave in as the last thing they want on their conscience is more unwarranted bloodshed. Perhaps then things might start happening.
Sorry mate, (For your pub that is), but as long as there is a standing government the Police (As is the Army), are duty bound to support it.

A previous respondent alluded to showing no respect to the 'Inspector' cause it was of course his fault.

I would say to everyone on this site, when they were/are employed in the Army if they would say anything other than the party line, when the press are involved. There are some nieve frackers around.

I have no doubt that the 'Inspector' concerned would like to give the youths a smack himself, but given his employment, can't appear to condone any violence.

In relation to 'Vigilantiasm', we are not, contrary to press reports living in the dark ages.

In my previous job, (I was a Monkey), I am not ashamed of it, although others may be for me, (That's there problem not mine), I heard many people over nearly a quarter of a century say, that they were going wreak havok and revenge. I never saw it once.

That tends to suggest that the threat of sanctions, inprisonment or otherwise, such as loss of earning or even respect/familly shame, are sufficient to deter people from acting in this manner.

Unless you are an absolute nutter and don't car about the consequences or, you are operating in a lawless group, as people did in the Toxteth and Bradford riots. On my local news in the last 10 days they have reported that the final (200th), rioter has received a custodial sentance after handing himself in. (From Bradford). He clearly did not hand himself in cause his library ticket was due.

My conclusion therefore, however flawed, is that the law, must work on some level.

It ain't perfect, but it's what we have and until someone comes up with some utopia, or a different idea/solution, we will muddle through.
 
#9
Another good post, but the scum we are talking about here just laugh at the law and all it stands for. For every arrest that sees the light of day in a court, there are quite a few, that because of infringing their 'uman rights, innit guv", that escape through the net and end up re-commiting countless other crimes.
 
#10
saintstone said:
Another good post, but the scum we are talking about here just laugh at the law and all it stands for. For every arrest that sees the light of day in a court, there are quite a few, that because of infringing their 'uman rights, innit guv", that escape through the net and end up re-commiting countless other crimes.
You will allways have an element who don't subscribe to law and order. There has been some discussion on these very pages in recent days, about offenders, who deliberately offend, to be reunited with their comfort zone, (In prison).

To my mind there is only one way to deal with particular group and that is to make prison less desirable. Like anything else in life market forces win hands down every time.

Give them (In relative terms), a hotel and every Easter, Birthday, anniversary and Christmas, they will want to book a room. Give them a run down, half built villa on the Costa Del Sol, they will want their money back.

In reallity, we will never revert back to the prisons of old, and this again may not be popular, but in the current climate, the but for the grace of .... go I, or one of my relatives/friends.

I also believe and again this is contraversial, that in todays society, we have less life threatening things to worry about (In general), such as food and shelter, that we tend to not only as a Nation, but as a species focus on the less important things in life.

I don't think Graffiti and yobs, is a problem of the Millenium. It's something every growing generation has to contend with. The difference is, it's now our time.

More worryingly, my parents, aged between 60 and 73 are less supportive of the police than they ever where. But in reallity, they have had no direct contact with any member of the police service since about 20 years ago.

The only conclusion I can draw from that, is that they glean their experience from the media.

Which, given the lack of direct contact suggests the media have a lot to answer for.
 
#11
To be honest, the scum of this land will not learn a thing until prisons are actually made a deterrent. I don't remember seeing any legilation that says that they are not to be denied PS3s, Ipods and the such. Prison is a place with walls to keep them in, not a holiday camp. A roof and 3 meals a day are all these things deserve and nothing else, and sod their human rights, they gave up the right to be human when they commited these crimes
 
#13
I'm in total agreement with that thread, ALL coppers should be armed. I have 2 friends in the Met, one with 30 yrs service reduced to the CAD room due to an injury and the other with 3 yrs under his belt(after probation). The one with 3yrs has now found a niche in the Met, he gets to knock on people's doors with a big red key in his hand, dragging people out of their home, throwing them in a van and driving them to the nearest deportation centre. The older one used to be SPG back in the day and loved every minute of it. 2 guys,different backgrounds doing the job they love and both agree that arming is the way forward, especially in this present climate, when you can never be sure what is going to happen to you on the streets.
 
#14
The law only applies to those with the most to lose: job, mortgage etc. Those who desecrate war memorials don't give a shyte. They don't have jobs and mortgages and thus the law does not apply to them. Unfortunately, these cnuts know exactly how the system is loaded in their favour and they play it perfectly - and the police (having to be impartial) fall straight in to their little game trap every time, common sense being inadmissible. The only thing is that this inadvertently shows the police in a non-impartial light - showing them to be on-side with the scum who don't work, contribute tax and actually pay the police's wages oddly enough. What a fcuking mess.

Crap like this shouldn't get anywhere near the CPS - never mind go to court. A senior officer should make a command decision there and then, circumventing the laborious and expensive prosecution route. I would like to think that ANY senior officer worthy of the uniform would take the word of a MOP rather than some 15 year old chav tw@t stinking of White Lightning. Or am I being simplistic?
 
#15
remember folks.
1-kick the chavs heads in.
2-DENY IT.
3-accuse them first-anything you like,however peodo and al queda spring to mind.
4-start private proceeedings against scrotes for damages(one solicitor letter is enough)
watch their case collapse.
 
#16
I believe dear Sir Saintstone, that you have edited your original post to include; (Despite not adding the phrase, 'Edited to say/add').

If a coup were to be declared, I reckon that a few people would be leaving these shores and I'm not on about the indigenous population. Seeing benefits disappear before your face would have that kind of reaction and perhaps people would stop seeing this country for the soft touch it has become for one and all. The police need to pick themselves up and sort their priorities out and stop looking for an easy life and relying on various pieces of legislation to prevent them from doing the job they get paid for. And the soft headed liberals need to wake up and smell the coffee, get their collective heads out of their arrses and take a good look at what they have done to this once great country.

Couples Quote from V for Vendetta - "The people should not be afraid of their Govt, the Govt should be afraid of their people."

But equally on the other hand you suggest and applaud that;

I'm in total agreement with that thread, ALL coppers should be armed. I have 2 friends in the Met, one with 30 yrs service reduced to the CAD room due to an injury and the other with 3 yrs under his belt(after probation). The one with 3yrs has now found a niche in the Met, he gets to knock on people's doors with a big red key in his hand, dragging people out of their home, throwing them in a van and driving them to the nearest deportation centre. The older one used to be SPG back in the day and loved every minute of it. 2 guys,different backgrounds doing the job they love and both agree that arming is the way forward, especially in this present climate, when you can never be sure what is going to happen to you on the streets.

I will grant you that there are two side to every coin, usually however, you are meant to pick either heads, or tails.

To my mind, you can't on the one side choose, (heads), blame the police for being lazy, or for 'hiding behind legislation', when on the other, (tails), say give them the tools, (In this particular argument, firearms), to do the job.

I carried a firearm for the majority of my career and although, (Luckily), I only had to 'produce' it 3 times, (And no not for cleaning), I was fortunate enough to never have to discharge it.

I have to say that on two of those occasions, it was to protect the life of a soldier. You don't get to hear about that either. I am sure that CIVPOL are no different and like any walk of life, you only hear about them when things go wrong.

The issue of policing, amongst many others is very emotive. As is immigration, the health service, prisons, to name but a few.

The civil police aside, when I joined as a Service Policeman in 85, (Some of the older respondents will know what I am talking about), soldiers used to cross the road to avoid us. (In the days we wore two's and yes we had an attitude). At the time I have to confess that I found it rather strange.

Having left towards the latter part of this year, I was left in the unusual position, (About a year before leaving), of people crossing the road to spit at me/us. (Of course full of alchyfrol at the time).

As a WO2, I had a 'Teeth Arm' JNCO spit in my face. Was anything done. No. The answer, whether right or wrong from the head of the guys shed, was that this soldier came from the gene pool, that is available to us/the army.

Is that setting an example, not for me to say.

I am missing teeth and bare facial scars from my excursions. For me however, has been part of the job.

I am not complaining, (For that is the job I chose), just trying to demonstrate, that whilst we might think we live in perfect world, in the Army, it is clear that we don't.

I had a PARA Captain ask me once, 'Why do you do it'. Slightly confused, I asked him to explain.

He could not figure why two LCpl's or Cpl's would get themselves stuck between 10, 15 or 20 members of his Regiment, who were hell bent on hurting people.

I offered to answer his question, with a question. Why do your guys take a hill, which is lined with machine gun posts.

It's their job, he replied.

There's your answer.

If I had the answer to the wider political question, I would be on far better wages than I am now. Whilst I am not always bowled over by the response of the police, I am to a degree sick and tired of them getting the blame for everything.

As one of the previous respondents so eliquently put it;

We should, 'Stop pandering to the do gooder liberal brigade who blame crime on everything but the little sod commiting it'.

When we finally adhere to that simple principle, I believe IMHO that we will of taken a step in the right direction.

P.S.

In response to your added comments, which I have to say elements of which rather annoyed me, we don't do Coups in this country. Nor does my beloved Army. I can understand your frustration, but to my mind that is rather dangerous postering. Even if it is on a 'vent your steam' website.
 
#17
The Police do not have to be armed per se but rather once more gain the confidence and respect of the general public. A way of going about this may well be to carry out the following.

1) Let the police have regular acces to the communities with regular foot patrols and community beat officers.
2) Permit Police to reassign resources to particular crimes or areas of concern within society.
3) Cut down the amount of beurocratic work and red tape needed to record a crime or an arrest.
4) Bring back specialist units such as the SPG
5) Speed up both the Court System and permit them to impose immediate punishments. Ie can not pay or will not pay.."Go to Gaol"..persistant offenders ..."Go to Gaol." There should be no excuses for not implementing this.
6) Train Police to be user friendly as many today have the persona of a politically correct dead welk.
7) Have a bone fide Police complaints procedure and an organisation that sees rogue offices punished rather than being allowed prolonged paid sick leave and then resign before being brought before an internal disciplinary.
8) Apply the law with some "Common Sense" and to this end remove target crime thresholds and the requirement for officers to to meet quotas.
9)Officers should be fit for the role they under take as unfortunately many are not. Indeed many would in any other profession would be classed as lazy.
10) Any bone fide call or report should be endorsed with a face to face visit from the police as opposed to being given a "crime reference number"
or being told the police are too busy as they are fighting gun crime! Meanwhile the 26th young man under the age of 18 in 2007 dies in the London area from a stab wound.
11) Before officers are armed per se they should re-learn many of the lessons of law enforcement which has in the last 20 years been forgotten.
12) Get politics and political correctness out of law enforcement.
13) The Police deserve a better press for all the good work that they undoubtedly do. At present many press reports are more likely to ridicule rather than compliment.
14) I am only "Joe Blogs" and many like me who pay their taxes and work their nuts off.However, when it comes to reporting crime and unsocial behaviour we do not therefore expect when it comes to law enforcement in both society and the local community, to be "Deplored and Ignored".
 
#18
Avon and Somerset Police need to get a grip of themselves.

The kids have claimed assault, so we know who they are. Get the 15 together, and their so called parents, and they can chip in for any restoration work to the memorial.

They can all then stand to attention in front of the memorial with placards saying "I am a worthless bag of sh1t" on their chests.

They will also attend history lessons given by the local Forces unit, on why the memorial is there, and why it is so special.

If the unit requires the shipping in of a few "specialist" instructors they can trawl. Qualifications required could include Army Boxing, Judo or just PSPO.

It is a sad fact of life that these cases come up more and more often. The scrotes know their rights, and wish them to be honoured. It is a shame that no one taught these turds that the rights of others are just as important.
 
#19
strings said:
The Police do not have to be armed per se but rather once more gain the confidence and respect of the general public. A way of going about this may well be to carry out the following.

8) Apply the law with some "Common Sense" and to this end remove target crime thresholds and the requirement for officers to to meet quotas.

I could reply to most of the others but, to be frank it's getting late.

Hi strings the law does not allow common sense.

A copper does not say to himself, well that particular law sounds like a load of old bollocks to me, lets apply some good old common sense.

That's why it's the law.

No attempt to ridicule fella, but next you will be saying oh, he's only just over the limit, he only just nicked him with the knife, he was not really going to kill his wife, cause she did not have the tea on, his tyres are near the legal limit, so we will let him off, he said he will pay for his road tax tomorrow, he threw a brick, but did not mean to hit that window, he sold double glazing, but didn't mean to take the savings from the pensioner. He just wanted a wee, not to thrust his penis in the direction of the woman, he has insurance but his mother has made the arrangements.

I could go on.

The thing that makes me laugh and always has, is that when you hear a story like the one that's posted here, you will have one party say my poor grandson was assaulted by that old woman, who should of known better.

Or from the other side that the kids were the devil incarnate.

In Germany they have a different system, (I can't remember the name), it's settled out of court by an arbitrator. His/her word is final for minor matters like the one mentioned.

I suppose it's like a magistrate but not as formal. He/she listens to argument, outside the presence of lawyers and make a common sense decision based on human decency.

Maybe thats the way forward.
 

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