"War blamed as 6,000 quit Territorial Army" - Sunday Times

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by hackle, Oct 30, 2005.

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  1. An article in today's Sunday Times based on the figures already posted in one of our "Westminster" threads last week. TIMES ONLINE LINK
    This claim is new to me:
  2. My deepest apologies Prime Minister,
    I really should of asked before i got married if it was ok to leave the TA.
    Just most of us fed up and being out of work when we get back i reckon.
  3. too many of the best soldiers get back from TELIC and then just go straight back to earn some big cash. Also, unsurprisingly they want to see their families and not spend weekends on ex again. Also many see ops as culmination of their TA careers, and are happy to leave after.

    I agree that our defence policy is in tatters, that Iraq is a mess and we are chronically under recruited. However, we must also realise that as TA we are not pensionable (unlike the Nat Guard) and even if our employers support us, two years out of our careers is really too much, and so however well the TA could be managed does any govt really think it could get 2 op tours out of most of us?. we don't support our troops here, however highly we are regarded as professionals, and while Kipling is correct the army will be undermanned.
  4. Be classed as a "migrant worker" by govt so they can avoid pension rights; get your teeth pulled out on mobilisation because MoD won't pay for dental work; go to war with whatever kit you managed to buy on eBay; work with an Army whose heirarchy is so politicised that its deemed acceptable to fight wars with three men and a spud gun; get no real-world employer compensation; get no real-world employment protection; get no post-Ops support, particularly for individual mobilisees; spend several years personally chasing the trinklet medal that is just about all you have to show for your loyalty; try and get another civvie job when every employer believes the govt will move the mobilisation goalposts again;.......... and now get blamed by the spin doctors because you left the TA........
  5. Outstanding.
    Again the Government is doing it on the cheap and is now suffering the concequences. The "migrant/casual labour" bit really is a kick in the nads. The fund of goodwill has been well and truly cashed over that one.

    I certainly agree with an earlier remark that many TA soldiers saw TELIC as the culmination of their careers. We had several excellent soldiers leave, as they said there was nothing they could do that could top what they did on operations, or that they had done what they had joined to do. That's only natural and isn't confined to the TA.

    If we're going to maintain a reserve component then it needs to be funded properly, trained properly and given better protection in law. I haven't seen any of this from FAS btw.

    And please, no more fat cooks in gliders.
  6. msr

    msr LE

    The reality is that the TA as an organisation has been raped by the regular army in a desperate attempt to plug gaps in their own manning.

    All this guff about the TA changing more in the last two years than in the previous x decades is true. The trouble is that the TA is not driving the change, it is being driven.

    That's why the goodwill is drying up and we are having greater and greater difficulty in getting blokes in through the front door and keeping them in, because they are now aware of the fact that the chances of mobilising with their mates, to do the job they trained for is extremely low.

  7. I would be interested to know if turn over is any different than it was pre-Telic. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.

    At Company level things "feel" different, but I think recruiting is pretty healthy at present. The present tranch of recruits seem willing to mobilise and those of us that have stayed are keen to put over lessons learned. I think it is a certain amount of post tour funk, but a fair amount of my blokes are willing to mobilise again.

    Recruiting and retention have always been an issue. Better conditions of employment would certainly improve matters and make a paralell career as a reservist more attractive. The cynic in me says that this is not high on the MOD agenda.
  8. Here's a thought, it's because the TA has now become sh1t?

    I joined at the end of 1996, TA took up about 2 weekens a month, either prepping for exercise or going on exercise.

    I was in a 'home defence' yeomanry unit at first, then got re -roled but still basically had loadsa fun on exercises with a core of good lads and lasses.

    Lots of exercises, plenty of pyro, and realistic training too.

    We had a squadron compliment of vehicles which we worked hard to look after and kit out to suit our purposes. Often coming in on maintenance weekends spending all of sat and sun sorting out the wagons, and having a spot of 'troop bonding' (getting on the p1ss) in the evenings.

    It was great.

    Now, Ive been out for 2 years but it was getting sh1t before I left, some of it down to squadron politics but a lot of it from the powers that be.

    Now, there is a central pool of vehicles to be requested for an exercise, which you dont have any reason to kit out or take extra care of,that is arrse!

    The main ammo for an exercise is the 'TA bang-bang' round.

    Not very realistic if a lot of your training is with 'notional' kit, cam poles and mine tape.

    A lot of people left for the reasons mentioned previously, but not many of the experienced soldiers are gonna hang around if they give up their precious time, away from family friends and pub, if it's just NOT FUN to do anymore!
  9. Hold on let me think about this, do I want to play soldiers every now & then, get paid for having a laugh, then I get to go back to my nice warm office. Or do I want go to a crap ridden country that doesn’t want me there, & at the same time I have no right in being there & get some rag head shooting at me or even worse try to blow the crap out of me & my mates.

    Er I’ve a choice, & my choice is up yours TB you go if you think it’s so important.
  10. msr

    msr LE

    The strength of the TA has been dropping since at least June 1999 (which is as far back as my quotable stats go).

  11. Which is about when it started to get a bit sh1t, SDR looming perhaps?
  12. It's too easy to take resources from the TA unfortunately - and the vast majority of people neither know nor care.

    'Blue-sky' (ahem) projects that look towards the re-grouping and forces relocation of TA centres - and their people - in order to make really rather pitiful savings are not helping this issue, because in many areas, they are the only visible indicator that we even have Armed Forces!

    As to whether the TA is 'getting more sh!t', I really couldn't say, but my next job entails a great deal of work with the TA and OTCs - and it is taken very seriously indeed.

    What the hell do I know - I'm part of a regime that is 'raping' the TA. I do apologise! ;)
  13. The constant treasury driven cheese paring will come back and bite the Army. You are quite correct DD, the reduction of the "footprint" across the UK - especially after Options and SDR, and now post FAS - means that the Army is becoming virtually invisible to many sectors of civilian life.

    Closure and disbandment of units and the selling off and disposal of TAC's may result in small short term savings but with massive damage to the body politic of the Army (Regular and TA). We seem to be masters at slicing the cake in thinner slices - but this leads to death by a 1000 cuts. Unfortunately, the asks on us (Regular and TA) increase but the elastic will eventually snap.
  14. US is in about the same position.

    A new recruit can join the Guard, be activated, sent to Iraq/wherever for a year, then come back. By the time everything is said and done, he's been in uniform over two years.

    Or, he can join the regular Army, be sent to Iraq/whatever for a year, then come back... Heck, if he's only in for a 3-year stint, might as well join the regulars and get all the benefits.

  15. I think the primary difference, C_T, is that British TA and regular soldiers don't enjoy the fringe benefits that a GI does (particularly the generous education allowance) and a British TA soldier doesn't get a pension (like The Guard), doesn't do regular duration basic training (like The Guard). Also, a British TA soldier is unlikely, I presume, to do the twelve month tour of duty that The Guard does.

    Which leads me to another question: if the TA soldiers here had the same benefits as the NG would they stand for a twelve month op tour?