Wannabe Officer

#41
Slim's is still around, but I understand (and this is just a personal impression gained from sniffing around the place) that officer recruiting is going very well at the moment. (This may the reason that it wasn't offered to you, but now I'm definitely surmising - or otherwise guessing.)
We'll never know, just have to accept their decision and move forward using hindsight as a tool for better performance in future endeavours.

Thanks again
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
#42
We'll never know, just have to accept their decision and move forward using hindsight as a tool for better performance in future endeavours.

Thanks again

I don't know the answer but it may be worth asking your CSM whether you can have another go at AOSB before November. After all you will have learnt things from your first attempt there and you will have learnt more at the Assessment Centre.

The obvious hurdle here is that that will create more work for your CSM, but you did say the Assessment Centre had spotted your potential.
 
#43
I don't know the answer but it may be worth asking your CSM whether you can have another go at AOSB before November. After all you will have learnt things from your first attempt there and you will have learnt more at the Assessment Centre.

The obvious hurdle here is that that will create more work for your CSM, but you did say the Assessment Centre had spotted your potential.
This is definitely food for thought, thank you for the advice, you have been very helpful.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
#44
This is definitely food for thought, thank you for the advice, you have been very helpful.

You're more than welcome. I'm just suggesting if you don't give it a go, you will be forever asking yourself 'What if?'.
 
#46
Quick point from me to the OP. Once you are in the ranks, you're in the ranks. You cannot simply pop into the recruiting office after initial training and attempt to join as an officer, letting your CoC know what you're up to.

Unless I am wildly out of date and the British Army has gone mental in my absence.

Junior NCO's have been known to be plucked from the ranks if they are deemed suitable, but that used to be rarer than a rare thing.

Good luck which ever route you take.
Not so rare these days. @Brotherton Lad will know the exact figure but currently 40-50 officer cadets at Sandhurst from the ranks over the three terms.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
#47
Not so rare these days. @Brotherton Lad will know the exact figure but currently 40-50 officer cadets at Sandhurst from the ranks over the three terms.
Yes. I was chatting to a couple the last few days. They tend to stand out in Blues, what with the medals and qualification badges.
 
#48
Yes. I was chatting to a couple the last few days. They tend to stand out in Blues, what with the medals and qualification badges.
One in particular you may be thinking of is in Germany at the moment on the final ex.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#52
Do you know what was blocking them from commissioning?
With the best will in the world, I think you are missing the point here.

Applying for a commission once you are a soldier will throw in a whole load of extra hurdles that you cannot necessarily identify or plan against. @alfred_the_great mentioned Regimental Colonels because it means: you will have to pass a popularity test. The qualities of a good officer are not always welcomed in a soldier, so it's not a given that you will pass, regardless of your quality.

The advice you've been given by several people (to which add me) is that your 'CSM' has given you bad advice which is in their interests but not yours. Bear in mind that in its current parlous state, the partly civilianised recruiting process is a lot more concerned about just getting applicants to join than getting the right fit for any one individual. (If this is shocking to you, reconsider the military as a career, because that is the model for 80% of the career decisions made for you.)

It is going to be vastly easier to commission from where you are now than from within the ranks. Failing AOSB once is very common and no kind of block, particularly if you were close. A much better piece of advice than joining the Regulars for 3-5 years, if what you were lacking was military experience, is to do a year or so in the Reserves: this is a well worn route.

You already know all this because it's why you've posted here questioning the CSM's advice, an instinct which as been confirmed by several experienced officers and at least one CO on here. Follow that instinct.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#53
Slim's is still around, but I understand (and this is just a personal impression gained from sniffing around the place) that officer recruiting is going very well at the moment. (This may the reason that it wasn't offered to you, but now I'm definitely surmising - or otherwise guessing.)
As an aside, I'm not sure that is correct. I know two current Sandhurst DS in different parts of the academy who I've seen in the past few months. Both said the intakes are still under strength. The longer serving one said it has improved from when he started, but still not full capacity.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#54
Regiment just didn't want to loose switched on guys. They would always say "ok after the next tour" and then" do this course and it will help" and then "ok we just need you for this tour as the orbat is set" . Then bang, the CO and ADJ change and you are back to square one. Rinse and repeat for 10 years.
Probably true in cap badge with single regiment/battalion, but certainly not true in the bigger Arms/Services. In the Sappers, COs were positively encouraged to identify and push forward Sandhurst Entry officer candidates.
 
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#55
Probably true in cap badge with single regiment/battalion, but certainly not true in the biggers Arms/Services. In the Sappers, COs were positively encouraged to identify and push forward Sandhurst Entry officer candidates.
I would only note that in doing so, you are placing your route to the future in the hands of yet more people, all of whom have to agree to your progressing forward.

If you apply to AOSB, then the only people with influence on your future are yourself and the board members. Not a busy OC, some random CO, a Regt Col or two and the RCMO in addition to the AOSB...
 
#56
With the best will in the world, I think you are missing the point here.

Applying for a commission once you are a soldier will throw in a whole load of extra hurdles that you cannot necessarily identify or plan against. @alfred_the_great mentioned Regimental Colonels because it means: you will have to pass a popularity test. The qualities of a good officer are not always welcomed in a soldier, so it's not a given that you will pass, regardless of your quality.

The advice you've been given by several people (to which add me) is that your 'CSM' has given you bad advice which is in their interests but not yours. Bear in mind that in its current parlous state, the partly civilianised recruiting process is a lot more concerned about just getting applicants to join than getting the right fit for any one individual. (If this is shocking to you, reconsider the military as a career, because that is the model for 80% of the career decisions made for you.)

It is going to be vastly easier to commission from where you are now than from within the ranks. Failing AOSB once is very common and no kind of block, particularly if you were close. A much better piece of advice than joining the Regulars for 3-5 years, if what you were lacking was military experience, is to do a year or so in the Reserves: this is a well worn route.

You already know all this because it's why you've posted here questioning the CSM's advice, an instinct which as been confirmed by several experienced officers and at least one CO on here. Follow that instinct.
Thank you for your detailed reply Sarastro, it has most definitely helped and will be taken on board within my next decision.

I would only note that in doing so, you are placing your route to the future in the hands of yet more people, all of whom have to agree to your progressing forward.

If you apply to AOSB, then the only people with influence on your future are yourself and the board members. Not a busy OC, some random CO, a Regt Col or two and the RCMO in addition to the AOSB...
Very fair point, thank you.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#57
I would only note that in doing so, you are placing your route to the future in the hands of yet more people, all of whom have to agree to your progressing forward.

If you apply to AOSB, then the only people with influence on your future are yourself and the board members. Not a busy OC, some random CO, a Regt Col or two and the RCMO in addition to the AOSB...
Agree. I would certainly not recommend anyone looking at Sandhurst entry to get there via soldier entry.
 
#58
Definitely spotted a recurring theme here, which is great.

Thank you all for your helpful replies, it will be taken on board.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
#59
As an aside, I'm not sure that is correct. I know two current Sandhurst DS in different parts of the academy who I've seen in the past few months. Both said the intakes are still under strength. The longer serving one said it has improved from when he started, but still not full capacity.
Then I'm clearly speaking to other people there. I understand CC192 was loaded to 104% capacity (the May intake is the smallest) and that the waiting list was full (that's why my son has to wait until Sep to start) and that CC191 had 260 cadets incl 39 international ones and CC183 had 253 (incl 34 international). No matter, the point is that the situation is much improved.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#60
Final point, remember what 'CSM' means in this context. It's a civilian recruiter, with a quota of applicants to turn into recruits, and quite likely no military experience. His/her interest and experience is not in the military, it's in getting applicants through the recruiting system into a training slot - if that's the slot the applicant wants, great. If not, oh well. To an extent this has always been the case with civilian recruiters: they could give decent advice about the recruiting process, but were woefully ignorant about anything after turning up at basic training. Unfortunately, some of them have always still been keen to give advice about what happens once you are in. Don't trust it.

I know a lot of people who were given bad advice by recruiters in AFCOs. If lucky, it took them a lot of time and effort for them to unwind it, if unlucky, they ended up somewhere they didn't want to be and subsequently realised they could have applied for what they wanted.
 

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