Wales to launch pilot Universal Basic income

Mbongwe

Old-Salt
Finland, and no, apparently it showed an improvement in wellbeing, mental health and economic security, but there were other factors involved too
Snipped for brevity. I'd suggest that such a scheme would be less open to abuse, and possibly yield far greater social benefits in a more homogeneous society such as Finland's than it would in almost anywhere in the UK.
 

HCL

LE
Seems the new government is trialling UBI very little details, however I guess they will use their allocation of central government funding and central government can stop all welfare and social payments, giving the Welsh government that instead to share out.

Some how I can see this ending in more tears.

Labour idea and they are such a success in Wales.


Lot of DWP service centre redundancies headed Wrexham and Bangor way if that's the case.
 

Mbongwe

Old-Salt
If that's it, say £16K for a family of 4, end of discussion I can see mass clearance of those on Welfare in London like the Highland Clearances and a huge rise in the slums of Welsh valleys. Happy days for me, don't work, not retired, an extra 8K a year.

I can see a few issues.
You're making the mistake of thinking that an extra £16k per family / £4k per person would outweigh the massive inertia that many benefit claimants have; most of these people aren't go-getters who regularly scan the media for how to save on living costs; they live where they've always lived / feel at home, where they can blend into the background and not get (as they see it) grassed-up / judged by people around them.

Speaking as a native Londoner, I think good folks in the Welsh valleys can rest easy :p...
 

slick

LE
16k, about £308 a week. I can see the smiles turning to tears, when some recipients realise that housing benefit no longer exists and they have to find private rents out of that sum.
 
Wasn`t this tried out in one of the Scandinavian countries (Norway ?). If I recall correctly it failed miserably, as a large proportion of the population were inherantly lazy, and quite prepared to take the cash to cover basics, whilst spending the day in front of the box, instead of trying to increase their income by working.

Finland.
 

Mbongwe

Old-Salt
16k, about £308 a week. I can see the smiles turning to tears, when some recipients realise that housing benefit no longer exists and they have to find private rents out of that sum.
Think about how high the Universal Benefit would need to be in inner London, where the cap for Housing Benefit for a single claimant over-35 is about £250 per week (working from memory). £308 per week would be a "pay-cut" when you factor in dole money.

Or would Universal Benefit be in addition to unemployment and housing benefit? The mind boggles!
 
16k, about £308 a week. I can see the smiles turning to tears, when some recipients realise that housing benefit no longer exists and they have to find private rents out of that sum.
I’d be more worried if I was a landlord and whether or not I get my rental income?
 
I've never understood what positive effect giving money to people with reasonable- to high-incomes is (if Universal Basic Income truly is regardless of income). And I certainly don't see any long-term benefit in diverting efforts and resources away from supporting people who are not working to find work.


Its always struck me as one of those bright ideas thats counter productive in practice and of course very misleading as we wont all see that 10 000 a year - because if you work your tax is going to increase to fund it - so whilst youve been given the free '10K' your 20K a year (apres tax) job is now only worth 18K.

Theres a real risk that it will create a situation where it isnt worth doing some lower paid jobs, thus reducing the tax base, thus increasing tax levels thus it isnt worth lower paid etc.


Then of course weve the outrage mob - Its universal income - so its for every man / woman/ Biscuitross* in the land.

All agreed good here you go Mr Mogg heres yours and the left is melting down that a rich tory is getting money he doesnt need - its going to be the same fallout as cutting income tax because some of the benefit goes to rich men.

Lost in the squeals from Labour will be the fact that whilst he recieves it - he wont see a penny of it as his basic tax rate will rise correspondingly.


Then of course youve the unemployed living in higher rent areas - UI wont cover this so are they to upsticks or will they recieve additional benefits.
The former will create outrage the latter - thats a mockery of a UI system and simply penalises lower income workers (again).


Edit on the other hand if it was paid to a house not an individual basis - that might ssee an end to the 200 registered (postal) voters and or 50 families to a single flat in tower hamlets type phenomenon





*Credited to Cutaway iirc
 
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Wasn`t this tried out in one of the Scandinavian countries (Norway ?). If I recall correctly it failed miserably, as a large proportion of the population were inherantly lazy, and quite prepared to take the cash to cover basics, whilst spending the day in front of the box, instead of trying to increase their income by working.
Bliss...
 
It's worth looking at to see what happens in practice. As mentioned above, it sort of worked in Finland & Canada (I thought there was one in LA/California? as well?).
We can then look at actual results, rather than instinct & guesswork.
Quite right to remain cynical, though!
 
Am picturing Wales now being the homeless capital, Scousers heading to Wrexham and the Severn Bridge toll now charging extra to get into Wales.
And no free tablets
 
Of the stuff I've read I have not seen any actual figures, so it is hard to judge whether they are planning to do the job properly or just half do it and end up with simply another form of poverty.

They talk about covering basic needs, but the DWP's current idea of £590 a month Universal Credit for a couple to live off and about £150 a month less than that for a single person does not come anywhere near doing that.
 
Of the stuff I've read I have not seen any actual figures, so it is hard to judge whether they are planning to do the job properly or just half do it and end up with simply another form of poverty.

They talk about covering basic needs, but the DWP's current idea of £590 a month Universal Credit for a couple to live off and about £150 a month less than that for a single person does not come anywhere near doing that.
No reason why one of the couple can't work or produce a kid for more benefits
 
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