Voter ID pilot Schemes

#41
Everything you do is recorded anyway and I mean everything, so they might at well issue ID cards,
You only have to look at the recent Facebook farce to support your point.
Plus things like various Clubcards and loyalty cards.
The lives of most people are the proverbial open book; whether you want it or not.
 
#42
Not convinced, you underestimate the actual effect of policies like this. How they are meant to work is one thing, how they actually work in practice is usually quite different.

1. By default, any initiative which seeks to tighten ID requirements is going to cut some people out - otherwise what is the point. The question is how many, and whether it will be the right people.

2. You seem to be assuming that the system will work as described or intended (e.g. if people can have X number of types of ID, then it is all fine). This is not how systems actually work, particularly govt initiatives like this. Usually they fail to work in some way, often quite predictably. As an example, after the tightening of bank rules I have found it consistently difficult to do basic things or make new accounts because my habitation record is non-standard...which started because I was in the Army, and moved every year for 5 years.

2. Is this a problem that needs solving? In America, to listen to the noise, this had become a huge issue even before Trump. However, there is vanishingly little evidence that it is actually a problem: the number of proven voter fraud cases is extraordinarily small (see analysis here[/url). You can argue that successful fraud goes undetected, but equally I could argue that our elections are being infiltrated by the Illuminati and thetans and Illuminati thetans. Initiatives should generally try to address actual problems, and problems need some evidence that they are a problem. Voter ID policies are quite possibly a solution in search of a problem.

3. Also in America, several studies have found that voter ID laws
do suppress minority turnout disproportionately. I suspect that Labour are probably just jumping on that bandwagon by immediately assuming the same is true here, when it is not at all clear that the same effect would happen here because the social system and position of minorities in the UK is very different to black/white issues in much of the US. But it is not a totally unreasonable question to try and answer. Moreover, the more likely effect is that it would suppress voting among poorer and younger people, who are generally more likely to vote Labour, so you can see their interest (and also that of the Conservatives).

I've been refused voting registration several times (for broadly the reasons described in no. 2). My sins are a) I was in the Army, so don't have a 'normal' and consistent habitation and voter registration record, and b) that I work abroad a lot and so have not always been able to turn up in person, or had an address that I could prove I was resident at (e.g. living with girlfriend when in the UK, but my name is not on her household documents). This has even applied, hilariously, to disallowing me from nominating a proxy to vote...when inability to turn up is the whole point of nominating a proxy!

So despite being a citizen since birth, paying taxes in the UK, and having served in the Army, my right to vote has apparently become questionable, because I sit between the boundaries of what the registration system finds easy to understand. People can easily be disenfranchised by these kinds of policies, the question is whether voter fraud is a big enough problem to take that risk. I've seen no evidence that it is.

The point is to make sure non citizens do not get to vote, which they do in places like California and New Mexico. Which do impact National elections. In Wyoming Non Citizens are marked as such on their ID card or Drivers license. Illegals are refused service.
 
#43
Today Guardian has an article about the upcoming Voter ID pilots in May. Basically they are suggesting they are racist as producing ID for voting might be a bit hard for non whites.

Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections


Given the list acceptable forms of photo ID or if they are not available you can use supporting documents, I get the feeling Labour are being very condescending to ethnic minorities.

Voter ID Pilots

If I am reading the criteria for forms of voting ID correctly, you either have to have lived off the grid your entire life or just not be legally allowed to vote to be refused a ballot paper under this scheme.

Basically, it is the same criteria for picking up parcel from the post office.

Have the Guardian finally lost it or is it the begining of a National ID card?
Labours sh*tting a brick over this. Or do you think that there really are 35 labour votes registered at an individual address for the purifiers of postal voting?
 
#45
I'd suggest the biggest impact will be on the old. Mum, aged 88, has never had a passport and has thankfully given up her driving licence. As her short term memory is not good I regularly have to search the house to find and file the relevant council tax, utility bills so I can lay my hands on them when she needs them. Given that she loses her Credit Card about twice a year issuing her an ID card would be pointless.

So, cos of one old dear, we all bin the concept?..... seems fair.
 
#46
I'd suggest the biggest impact will be on the old. Mum, aged 88, has never had a passport and has thankfully given up her driving licence. As her short term memory is not good I regularly have to search the house to find and file the relevant council tax, utility bills so I can lay my hands on them when she needs them. Given that she loses her Credit Card about twice a year issuing her an ID card would be pointless.
Just give her a colouring book and tell her she's voted.
 
#47
Any methods that help to cut potential or actual voter fraud should be applauded imho. No system is perfect, granted.
However, if the electorate believe that the system is open to widescale abuse - particularly by immigrants (and potentially illegal immigrants too), then you are gifting votes to extremists.
 
#48
#49
Anyone who is paying taxes is entitled to a say in how those taxes are spent. In this country we do that by allowing them to choose who represents them in local and general elections. No taxation without representation.
Not true. Plenty of people pay taxes in the UK but don't have the right to vote.
 
#51
Presumably during those 10 years they won't need to pay any taxes? Not taxation without representation. Caused quite a big kerfuffle a while ago.
That only works properly if the opposite is also true: No representation without taxation. The level is clearly negotiable as everyone pays VAT on consumption, even kids (By proxy).

If you want to have an influence on how the pot is a. collected and b. divided up, then you need to have a stake in the game. If you have not yet contributed or have not actively done so for say 12 months in the last five years, then you don't get a vote. Certain exemptions may apply, for example if your married/civil partner meets the qualifying criteria, pensioners with enough NI contributions to qualify for a state pension or for mothers of children under school age.
 
#53
Such as?
Genuine question. Not looking for an argument.
If you are a British, Irish or Commonwealth citizen, you have full voting rights in the UK; namely, you can vote in local elections, European elections and GE's.

If you are an EU citizen resident in the UK, you can vote in local elections and European ones but not GEs.

If you are non-EU or UK/Irish/Commonwealth, you have no voting rights at all.

www.gov.uk
 
#54
If you are a British, Irish or Commonwealth citizen, you have full voting rights in the UK; namely, you can vote in local elections, European elections and GE's.

If you are an EU citizen resident in the UK, you can vote in local elections and European ones but not GEs.

If you are non-EU or UK/Irish/Commonwealth, you have no voting rights at all.

www.gov.uk
FFS. Of course! A blonde moment on my part chaps.
I actually though that @chasndave was on the wind up, and was going to say something sarcastic. Along the lines of multi-national companies paying billions in taxes but not being able to vote!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#56
Yes, you are a liberal softy. I'd go with the French method, and nip the whole assimilation problem in the bud:

Woman denied French citizenship for refusing to shake official's hand


Back on the OP thread, IMHO the UK needs a thorough audit of its population, their immigration status and entitlement to Taxpayer funds. If UK government is ever able to produce a budget for its lavish welfare handouts, then as a minimum first step it need to count heads. As part of this, its important to define who has the right to vote themselves a share of the pot.
I like the link, if this is important then certain positive benefits need to be attached to the citizenship such as uninsured health care and the right to vote!
 
#57
I predict a sharp increase in the numbers applying for postal votes!

Sadiq Khan got his minions to do this already in Wandsworth, one wonders how many other Labour groups have done the same thing ... snip
 
#58
Presumably during those 10 years they won't need to pay any taxes? Not taxation without representation. Caused quite a big kerfuffle a while ago.
If they want to become citizens of this (once) fine country, they'll pay taxes and NI, learn to speak English, learn about the cultural identity and differences of the entire UK and stay clear of the justice system like everyone else does. They'd know the rules, and if they choose not to abide by them, then 'oh dear, what a pity, never mind...they and their families are on the first plane back to shitsville.

That way, we'd get productive people who want to be part of our society and help to enhance our country.

And why the fook do people think it's acceptable for people to be allowed to enter, then become homeless and claim benefits....and WTF is every big issue saleperson around my neck of the woods a romanian woman?

Personally, I want the country back...but that's just the wishful thinking of my softer side
 
#59
Any methods that help to cut potential or actual voter fraud should be applauded imho.
Indeed - like sorting out the situation where students manage to vote twice.

A Communities minister saying "That's illegal already" doesn't matter if the Mini Momentum's know there's sod all chance of being caught, let alone facing any sanction.
 

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