Voter ID pilot Schemes

#1
Today Guardian has an article about the upcoming Voter ID pilots in May. Basically they are suggesting they are racist as producing ID for voting might be a bit hard for non whites.

Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections


Given the list acceptable forms of photo ID or if they are not available you can use supporting documents, I get the feeling Labour are being very condescending to ethnic minorities.

Voter ID Pilots

If I am reading the criteria for forms of voting ID correctly, you either have to have lived off the grid your entire life or just not be legally allowed to vote to be refused a ballot paper under this scheme.

Basically, it is the same criteria for picking up parcel from the post office.

Have the Guardian finally lost it or is it the begining of a National ID card?
 
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#2
I wonder why Labour object to this. Could it be they rely on voter fraud? No, never.
 
#3
Today Guardian has an article about the upcoming Voter ID pilots in May. Basically they are suggesting they are racist as producing ID for voting might be a bit hard for non whites.

Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections


Given the list acceptable forms of photo ID or if they are not available you can use supporting documents, I get the feeling Labour are being very condescending to ethnic minorities.

Voter ID Pilots

If I am reading the criteria for forms of voting ID correctly, you either have to have lived off the grid your entire life or just not be legally allowed to vote to be refused a ballot paper under this scheme.

Basically, it is the same criteria for picking up parcel from the post office.
Simple if you are a British Citizen and entitled to vote in a British Election be it Local/Genral,what is wrong with having a British Citizenship ID card?
Time we all had ID cards to cover all entitlements like Driving,Passport,NHS,HMRC,DWP,Local Council services Education etc.
The only objections will come from those not entitled or Corbyniski and his true leadership McClusky and Momentum.
If ALL British Citizens are issued with an ID card (FOC) the likes of Windrush,Grenfell could be avoided ( notice I said Could as nothing is guaranteed)
 
#4
I feel a disturbance in the force padawan.
The labour fiefdoms in the northern mill town ghettos are allready discomforted by the prospect of their postal voting habits being looked at. The prospect of the dark side ( momentum) not being able to stuff votes in key elections disappoints lord Vader’s minions.
( pastiche mode off)
 
#6
Isn't it racist to assume all ethnics are too thick to be able to carry a voter id card, the same arguments are made in America and they're still racist here
 
#7
Today Guardian has an article about the upcoming Voter ID pilots in May. Basically they are suggesting they are racist as producing ID for voting might be a bit hard for non whites.

Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections


Given the list acceptable forms of photo ID or if they are not available you can use supporting documents, I get the feeling Labour are being very condescending to ethnic minorities.

Voter ID Pilots

If I am reading the criteria for forms of voting ID correctly, you either have to have lived off the grid your entire life or just not be legally allowed to vote to be refused a ballot paper under this scheme.

Basically, it is the same criteria for picking up parcel from the post office.

Have the Guardian finally lost it or is it the begining of a National ID card?
Seems fine by me.

Kunle Olulode said:
“We feel strongly that this type of policy will not only have minimal impact on the miniscule level of voting fraud but will create potentially new and unnecessary barriers to participation in the electoral process if people become uncertain of requirements when they turn up at polling stations, further impacting negatively on registrations. Asking for voters IDs as a policy certainly has echoes of the strategy aimed at making society an uncomfortable place for illegal migrants.”
Now you're getting it. The more uncomfortable the better, I say.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
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#8
I predict a sharp increase in the numbers applying for postal votes!
 
#10
Today Guardian has an article about the upcoming Voter ID pilots in May. Basically they are suggesting they are racist as producing ID for voting might be a bit hard for non whites.

Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections


Given the list acceptable forms of photo ID or if they are not available you can use supporting documents, I get the feeling Labour are being very condescending to ethnic minorities.

Voter ID Pilots

If I am reading the criteria for forms of voting ID correctly, you either have to have lived off the grid your entire life or just not be legally allowed to vote to be refused a ballot paper under this scheme.

Basically, it is the same criteria for picking up parcel from the post office.

Have the Guardian finally lost it or is it the begining of a National ID card?
While I'm not a fan of ID cards, I really struggle with the logic that someone my skin colour impacts my ability to have and produce existing ID. I also note the article says regarding ID: "or might be reluctant to produce them at polling stations "

Why would someone be reluctant to identify themself - you have to (very informally) confirm your identity to get your ballot paper anyway, and likewise you have to confirm details on the electoral roll.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
Today Guardian has an article about the upcoming Voter ID pilots in May. Basically they are suggesting they are racist as producing ID for voting might be a bit hard for non whites.

Tories in new race row over identity checks for elections


Given the list acceptable forms of photo ID or if they are not available you can use supporting documents, I get the feeling Labour are being very condescending to ethnic minorities.

Voter ID Pilots

If I am reading the criteria for forms of voting ID correctly, you either have to have lived off the grid your entire life or just not be legally allowed to vote to be refused a ballot paper under this scheme.

Basically, it is the same criteria for picking up parcel from the post office.
Not convinced, you underestimate the actual effect of policies like this. How they are meant to work is one thing, how they actually work in practice is usually quite different.

1. By default, any initiative which seeks to tighten ID requirements is going to cut some people out - otherwise what is the point. The question is how many, and whether it will be the right people.

2. You seem to be assuming that the system will work as described or intended (e.g. if people can have X number of types of ID, then it is all fine). This is not how systems actually work, particularly govt initiatives like this. Usually they fail to work in some way, often quite predictably. As an example, after the tightening of bank rules I have found it consistently difficult to do basic things or make new accounts because my habitation record is non-standard...which started because I was in the Army, and moved every year for 5 years.

3. Is this a problem that needs solving? In America, to listen to the noise, this had become a huge issue even before Trump. However, there is vanishingly little evidence that it is actually a problem: the number of proven voter fraud cases is extraordinarily small (see analysis here). You can argue that successful fraud goes undetected, but equally I could argue that our elections are being infiltrated by the Illuminati and thetans and Illuminati thetans. Initiatives should generally try to address actual problems, and problems need some evidence that they are a problem. Voter ID policies are quite possibly a solution in search of a problem.

4. Also in America, several studies have found that voter ID laws do suppress minority turnout disproportionately. I suspect that Labour are probably just jumping on that bandwagon by immediately assuming the same is true here, when it is not at all clear that the same effect would happen here because the social system and position of minorities in the UK is very different to black/white issues in much of the US. But it is not a totally unreasonable question to try and answer. Moreover, the more likely effect is that it would suppress voting among poorer and younger people, who are generally more likely to vote Labour, so you can see their interest (and also that of the Conservatives).

I've been refused voting registration several times (for broadly the reasons described in no. 2). My sins are a) I was in the Army, so don't have a 'normal' and consistent habitation and voter registration record, and b) that I work abroad a lot and so have not always been able to turn up in person, or had an address that I could prove I was resident at (e.g. living with girlfriend when in the UK, but my name is not on her household documents). This has even applied, hilariously, to disallowing me from nominating a proxy to vote...when inability to turn up is the whole point of nominating a proxy!

So despite being a citizen since birth, paying taxes in the UK, and having served in the Army, my right to vote has apparently become questionable, because I sit between the boundaries of what the registration system finds easy to understand. People can easily be disenfranchised by these kinds of policies, the question is whether voter fraud is a big enough problem to take that risk. I've seen no evidence that it is.

EDIT: Fixed the abysmal hyperlink cluster.
 
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#12
I'd make it a requirement that someone who emigrates to the UK, must be here for 10 years before being eligible for citizenship and voting rights...If during that 10 year period, they commit offences or prove to be a burden on the public purse, then they're back on the boat to whichever shitland they came from.....but that's just me being a big ol'softy
 
#13
I'd make it a requirement that someone who emigrates to the UK, must be here for 10 years before being eligible for citizenship and voting rights...If during that 10 year period, they commit offences or prove to be a burden on the public purse, then they're back on the boat to whichever shitland they came from.....but that's just me being a big ol'softy

Yes, you are a liberal softy. I'd go with the French method, and nip the whole assimilation problem in the bud:

Woman denied French citizenship for refusing to shake official's hand


Back on the OP thread, IMHO the UK needs a thorough audit of its population, their immigration status and entitlement to Taxpayer funds. If UK government is ever able to produce a budget for its lavish welfare handouts, then as a minimum first step it need to count heads. As part of this, its important to define who has the right to vote themselves a share of the pot.
 
#14
I'd make it a requirement that someone who emigrates to the UK, must be here for 10 years before being eligible for citizenship and voting rights...If during that 10 year period, they commit offences or prove to be a burden on the public purse, then they're back on the boat to whichever shitland they came from.....but that's just me being a big ol'softy
Presumably during those 10 years they won't need to pay any taxes? Not taxation without representation. Caused quite a big kerfuffle a while ago.
 
#15
I'd make it a requirement that someone who emigrates to the UK, must be here for 10 years before being eligible for citizenship and voting rights...If during that 10 year period, they commit offences or prove to be a burden on the public purse, then they're back on the boat to whichever shitland they came from.....but that's just me being a big ol'softy
Should work both ways Barry or Barriana Brit move to another Country. They also need to be resident,Law abiding,paying taxes etc. If they commit offences or become a burden on that country the back home to Blighty and restart from scratch here. If they had been out of the UK for more than 24 months,then no benefits until paid in the system again ( Income Tax) back to the bottom of social housing list. Only thing you keep is your National Insurance towards your State Retirment Pension. Make the system fair too all
 
#16
Presumably during those 10 years they won't need to pay any taxes? Not taxation without representation. Caused quite a big kerfuffle a while ago.
Rrrrrriiiiiiggght.

So you're looking to sell your case to the Borders Agency (or whatever they're called this week) as an upstanding person who the UK really needs. And first thing you do is not pay taxes?

Anyone else see a snag with this?
 
#17
We have had to show photo ID to vote in Northern Ireland for years. I have never heard any of the ethnic minorities here say that it has caused them a problem.

The only people that consistently bitch about it are Sinn Fein, whose widespread electoral fraud is what caused the law in the first place. Oddly enough their arguments against it are exactly the same as above, that Catholics are less likely to have photo ID, for some mysterious reason that they can't actually explain.
 
#18
I feel a disturbance in the force padawan.
The labour fiefdoms in the northern mill town ghettos are allready discomforted by the prospect of their postal voting habits being looked at. The prospect of the dark side ( momentum) not being able to stuff votes in key elections disappoints lord Vader’s minions.
( pastiche mode off)

What?

4,000 labour voters don’t really live in the same rented office?
 
#20
Not convinced, you underestimate the actual effect of policies like this. How they are meant to work is one thing, how they actually work in practice is usually quite different.

1. By default, any initiative which seeks to tighten ID requirements is going to cut some people out - otherwise what is the point. The question is how many, and whether it will be the right people.

2. You seem to be assuming that the system will work as described or intended (e.g. if people can have X number of types of ID, then it is all fine). This is not how systems actually work, particularly govt initiatives like this. Usually they fail to work in some way, often quite predictably. As an example, after the tightening of bank rules I have found it consistently difficult to do basic things or make new accounts because my habitation record is non-standard...which started because I was in the Army, and moved every year for 5 years.

2. Is this a problem that needs solving? In America, to listen to the noise, this had become a huge issue even before Trump. However, there is vanishingly little evidence that it is actually a problem: the number of proven voter fraud cases is extraordinarily small (see analysis here[/url). You can argue that successful fraud goes undetected, but equally I could argue that our elections are being infiltrated by the Illuminati and thetans and Illuminati thetans. Initiatives should generally try to address actual problems, and problems need some evidence that they are a problem. Voter ID policies are quite possibly a solution in search of a problem.
3. Also in America, several studies have found that voter ID laws
do suppress minority turnout disproportionately. I suspect that Labour are probably just jumping on that bandwagon by immediately assuming the same is true here, when it is not at all clear that the same effect would happen here because the social system and position of minorities in the UK is very different to black/white issues in much of the US. But it is not a totally unreasonable question to try and answer. Moreover, the more likely effect is that it would suppress voting among poorer and younger people, who are generally more likely to vote Labour, so you can see their interest (and also that of the Conservatives).
I've been refused voting registration several times (for broadly the reasons described in no. 2). My sins are a) I was in the Army, so don't have a 'normal' and consistent habitation and voter registration record, and b) that I work abroad a lot and so have not always been able to turn up in person, or had an address that I could prove I was resident at (e.g. living with girlfriend when in the UK, but my name is not on her household documents). This has even applied, hilariously, to disallowing me from nominating a proxy to vote...when inability to turn up is the whole point of nominating a proxy!
So despite being a citizen since birth, paying taxes in the UK, and having served in the Army, my right to vote has apparently become questionable, because I sit between the boundaries of what the registration system finds easy to understand. People can easily be disenfranchised by these kinds of policies, the question is whether voter fraud is a big enough problem to take that risk. I've seen no evidence that it is.
Interesting. In some of those circumstances it sounds as if the electoral registration people were remiss in not at least telling you about something called "Declaration of Local Connection".
 

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